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Post by Sleepy on Nov 17, 2012 3:06:09 GMT -5
Hell breezy, lemme show yah how to keep tha... What... no one? ;D
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Post by sunshine on Nov 17, 2012 8:41:49 GMT -5
I think that the most relevant thing to come out of this post so far is to petition or boycot for the MIA rules. Full auto in my opinion is fine if used with caution.
Not trying to jump on the bandwagon of posting about the 400+ FPS rule but you got nine stories of playing, thats a lot of choke points and in some cases you're fighting up stairs. Imagine getting lit up and someone falling down the stairs or something like that. I say get them within MIA ruling or it'll just be play at your own risk.
The field BB rule is plain stupid, offer BBs at the place but don't make it required unless maybe you were using one of their replicas.
It has potential to be awesome if they change to the norms of MIA.
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Post by Da Vinci - Да Винчи on Nov 17, 2012 9:23:20 GMT -5
Our cqb place says keep it 3-5 round bursts indoor. See, that makes more sense. I'm not advocating for spray-and-pray, I think its just taking it a bit far to completely ban full auto because people aren't wearing correct gear to protect themselves from things that should be expected in a CQB game. I agree with not wanting to get shot 30 times, but for that to really happen, they must have an insane RPS and you must have the reaction time of a dead sloth. The odds of that happening are just so low, and the circumstances have to be just right, and even then, you should be fine if wearing protective equipment.
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Post by Myers on Nov 17, 2012 9:56:39 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but I just fail to see how your last post is relevant to this discussion, TheEnd. I was trying to explain that there is more to the no full auto rule than people crying over welts. My post was actually quite relevant. An airsoft gun shooting >350FPS at any range will never cause a serious injury unless you're shot in the eye. Seriously? I'm not trying to be an ass, but you have to be kidding me. Never? The things I read on this site, I swear. I'm done. Alright then TheEnd, please do share how a plastic 6mm BB can cause a serious injury. Even getting a BB embedded in your skin is nowhere near a serious injury, and that's probably the worst I've seen. Seriously, what are you trying to prove?
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Post by Guns McBen on Nov 17, 2012 10:10:34 GMT -5
Hard plastic BBs (like biovals, I think?) have massive potential for injury, Myers.
Since they are made of harder plastic, they impact and create an inelastic collision. If it hits bare skin covering soft tissue, that tissue will absorb and dissipate the energy, but if it hits something like a finger, or knuckle, it has the potential to break bones.
We've also had incidents in the past of people getting teeth shot out and broken, even with softer plastic rounds, and guns well within the fps limits. That's one of the reasons we have the blind-fire rules.
Learn your shit, and stop flapping your jaw.
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Post by Myers on Nov 17, 2012 10:20:54 GMT -5
Breaking a finger, or getting a tooth chipped is far from a serious injury. Both could be easily avoided as well, it's called gloves and a facemask. Sorry, but I'm not convinced. I think you're more likely to fall and twist your ankle than to get hurt by a BB...
I do understand your guys's arguments though. I understand it 100% completely. I just don't see it as nearly as much of a danger. There are risks in just about any sport. Airsoft is not an exception.
Don't understand why everyone's getting so butthurt though. This is a discussion thread, and that's all that has happened. Not 1 bit of flaming yet.
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ctres
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Post by ctres on Nov 17, 2012 10:37:33 GMT -5
Okay then, here is a better question? Why is 400fps+ and full auto necessary? In real steel it is often beneficial to use semi simply because FA is a lot harder to control and you dump mags really quickly, but in airsoft neither of those is a problem and people abuse it. FA tends to choke things up, and doesn't necessarily add any fun and as others have said it increases the chances of injury. Whether you deem that injury "serious" is totally irrelevant, the fact is that these injuries are undesirable to all parties involved and categorizing them isn't helping anything.
I also think that the comparison to contact sports is also not particularly valid. Ever notice how after about age 18 most people quit playing contact sports except for the few that get college scholarships? It's because some people realize that the injuries are not worth it. People have lives outside airsoft, and lots of people have jobs to go to every Monday. It is not a competitive sport, it is a hobby, I'm pretty sure that has been well established, so comparing airsoft to contact sports that people play mainly as teenagers when they can afford the risk of injury and don't have other responsibilities is completely pointless.
Oh yeah, and some people don't want to have to wear a mask and a bunch of wonky protective gear. In fact, that is a huge reason that most people play airsoft rather than paintball.
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Post by Guns McBen on Nov 17, 2012 10:40:17 GMT -5
Breaking a finger, or getting a tooth chipped is far from a serious injury. Excuse me while I pick my jaw up off the floor. Also, it's beyond just chipping teeth. I think it was Relarz that got an entire tooth broken (he was really cool about it though). When you start spitting out shattered tooth bits, the injury is beyond a welt. you're more likely to fall and twist your ankle than to get hurt by a BB... That's because we strive to keep indoor play as safe as possible, and have made safety rules to that end. Those rules have deeper origins than most people realize.
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Post by Da Vinci - Да Винчи on Nov 17, 2012 11:03:42 GMT -5
So, in the end, we're not allowed to use full auto indoors because people don't want to wear a $10 mask and some cheap hard-knuckle gloves?
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Post by Knief on Nov 17, 2012 11:10:24 GMT -5
Da Vinci,
As soon as you run a year's worth of CQB games attended by a wide variety of players, you'll have room to talk. I've been there and done that with Farmington. We didn't start out with a semi-only rule, but we sure as shit ended up with one. Players were getting injured, players were getting pissed, and good players stopped showing up because of it. It's dangerous and it kills gameplay.
You must live in a world where everybody has awesome dental insurance. If I lose a tooth, it will cost me thousands out of pocket to get it replaced, and that's money I don't have. Breaking a finger isn't a big deal? It is when your ability to work depends on your dexterity and missing time means missing rent money.
Also, getting your tooth shot out and getting your finger broken fucking hurts. We want to minimize pain and injury, no matter how severe you think any one particular injury is, and we're willing to sacrifice some game play for it (if you think forcing people to use skill instead of volume of fire is a sacrifice, I think its and improvement). Yes, you can't full auto because you're that much more likely to hurt somebody. Suck it up and deal.
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Post by snafu on Nov 17, 2012 11:12:06 GMT -5
So, in the end, we're not allowed to use full auto indoors because people don't want to wear a $10 mask and some cheap hard-knuckle gloves? How the heck did you even come up with that conclusion? You and Myers can go shoot each other point blank full auto all day if thats what you desire, nobodys stopping you. Edit. Knief beat me to it.
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ctres
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Post by ctres on Nov 17, 2012 11:20:56 GMT -5
So, in the end, we're not allowed to use full auto indoors because people don't want to wear a $10 mask and some cheap hard-knuckle gloves? Did you read the rest of my post? I gave a ton of other good reasons FA isn't necessary indoors. But if you really want an answer I guess it would be yes, although that is just one of many reasons that others as well as I have already elaborated on. It's not a money issue, it's actually quite the opposite. When you put hundreds of dollars into a helmet to make it look 100% realistic you tend to want to be able to wear it when you play airsoft. Realism in my opinion is one of the things that differentiates airsoft from paintball and I don't want unnecessary FA and FPS limits to ruin that, especially considering that they don't add any enjoyment to the game, which is the whole point of playing.
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Post by M.S.-ARC on Nov 17, 2012 12:47:21 GMT -5
I work with my hands drawing construction documents. If I break a finger, that's a serious injury.
I also work as a part time supermodel. If I chip my tooth, that's also a serious injury ;D.
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Post by Priest (Immortal) on Nov 17, 2012 13:37:21 GMT -5
I'm loving this thread!!!
I played paintball for about 16+ years. I was the guy that went out there in t-shirt and shorts and played by the rules that only head and body shots counted as hits. Needless to say I came home with bloody arms and legs sometimes. My brother Hylander from Immortal can account to it. So I'm definitely not the cry baby type. I can see where Myers and Da Vinci are coming from. I think we play a sport that inflicts pain and comes with some occasional blood shed. Now having said that. I agree with Tank when he said that the younger guys are up for the danger while the older guys are preaching safety. I'm not quiting him, but you get the drift. When I was younger I took risks with my safety, and unfortunately looking back on things, with others as well. I do not see the point in arguing why there is a need to play as close to potential for unnecessary physical harm as we can. In the end it is just a game. While yes we take it seriously, I'm not in it to inflict pain on anyone. If that was my intent I'd take up cage fighting. I'm not trying to bash the mind set of saying guys should be rough and tough. I'm all for that. But I'm also all for not hurting each other just to do it. Allot of good points in here though. Later.
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Post by Squirrel on Nov 17, 2012 14:07:52 GMT -5
We could always add real steel knives for knife kills as well. As long as you just slash and not stab it should be ok. Minor lacerations aren't a serious injury. I mean we play a sport where there is a potential for bloodshed. Why not?
^That is what some of your arguments sound like to me.
I got three teeth knocked out with a hockey stick a few years back. If I had not had dental insurance, the total price of temporary caps, root canals, and crowns would have been close to $5,000. I wear a mouthguard when I play now because I honestly never want to go through getting teeth knocked out anymore, it really sucks if you haven't experienced it.
I've also broke about all of my fingers, as well as fractured a few bones in my right hand. I still have problems with them sometimes. I wear gloves, but they won't do much for you if somebody shoots you point blank.
I see no need for trying to rationalize high FPS guns unless you bought yourself a JG shooting 400fps and your mommy and daddy won't let you use their credit card anymore to buy yourself a m90 or m100 spring.
My Combat Machine that I dumped less than $100 in parts into will shoot 320fps on the dot all day long at 20RPS. It is also a hell of a lot more accurate up to 150 feet than most peoples guns shooting 400fps. Learn to tech a little bit and you'll be good to go. My DMR rifle only shoots 370FPS, and I can out range a lot of guns with it. That gun shoots around 27RPS, but I pretty much only use it in semi auto.
The only reason I see to have a gun pushing 400fps is if most of your engagements will be at 100+feet.
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