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Post by TheEnd on Nov 16, 2012 22:28:39 GMT -5
but I've been lit up, full-auto, from less than 10 feet from a stock 400 FPS Chinese AEG. Yeah, it hurt like hell, and I had welts, but there's really no serious threat there Now imagine nearly every engagement you have is like that over a four or five hour period. It gets old.
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Post by Myers on Nov 16, 2012 22:37:13 GMT -5
but I've been lit up, full-auto, from less than 10 feet from a stock 400 FPS Chinese AEG. Yeah, it hurt like hell, and I had welts, but there's really no serious threat there Now imagine nearly every engagement you have is like that over a four or five hour period. It gets old. Well honestly, when compared to any other sport the chance of injury in airsoft (other than welts) is incredibly low. Take a common team sport such as ice hockey, for instance. How often do you watch a NHL game where you don't shout "Ooooooh...." out loud due to the collision that just happened and literally came close to causing you pain? Very rarely. Skateboarders/bikers/snowboarders/skiiers go through risks much higher than an airsoft game, and they face a drastically higher risk for injury. At the same time, they are also widely accepted as great and well known sports. I can understand how getting hit from such a close range sucks and how much it hurts initially, but that should just be that much more of an incentive to try and not get hit.
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Post by Da Vinci - Да Винчи on Nov 16, 2012 22:41:35 GMT -5
but I've been lit up, full-auto, from less than 10 feet from a stock 400 FPS Chinese AEG. Yeah, it hurt like hell, and I had welts, but there's really no serious threat there Now imagine nearly every engagement you have is like that over a four or five hour period. It gets old. You missed the other thing I said, about how if they're shooting under 350. If it's in an actual facility meant for airsoft use and they have the ability to chrono guns and say what can and can't go in, they have much more control over the situation than people in a "backyard" game shooting their 400 FPS guns from 5 feet away, which can break skin, but still isn't that big of a deal. In most blue-collar jobs people get light cuts, scrapes, and nicks on a daily basis, and the damages aren't much worse than being shot by a high-power airsoft gun.
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Post by Tank on Nov 16, 2012 22:59:06 GMT -5
I can't believe this is even being discussed. Seriously? Why do you need more than 350 in a CQB environment? You aren't that far away from your target. You don't need the extra range. I am noticing a pattern here. The people that are arguing that it's no big deal, are young and have something to prove. The people that are saying it's just opening yourself up for more injuries, are older and couldn't give a crap if you think they are being a wimp. It's just unnecessary, so why do it?
Paintball was mentioned earlier. Paintball has drastically reduced FPS requirements indoor, for a reason. Outside they have a minimum engagement of 10 to 20 feet, depending on the field, similar to our >350FPS.
Edit: If the facility is worried about cracking open new guns to put in a weaker spring, they should just stop before they get started. They are destined to have no working weapons in no time, if they are too afraid to work on them.
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Post by Da Vinci - Да Винчи on Nov 16, 2012 23:05:38 GMT -5
We're not discussing the FPS limit, we're discussing that full-auto isn't allowed in CQB, even though they only allow guns that shoot less than 350 FPS, which seems unnecessary, as the BB doesn't have as much power behind it as, say, a 400 FPS gun, which does have more risks for injury, even though it's still not great.
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Post by TheEnd on Nov 16, 2012 23:05:44 GMT -5
I have played CQB with the masses a whole bunch. People on MIA may follow the rules, but people who walk in off the street generally don't. I can't tell you how many times I read the rules at our field and asked if everyone understood them or had any questions, just to have them run out on the field and do something wrong. I would stress never to take your goggles off, ever, you only have two eyes, etc. I talked about it for at least a minute. First thing they would do when they were fogging was take them off, or when they were hit take them off, or forget to put them on, etc.
It's nice to think 350 fps AEG's won't seriously hurt you, but they can. I've had my tooth shot out, two knuckles broken, and had my fingernails cracked a bunch of times among other things. Playing full auto CQB with people who have been playing for a long time or know the rules can be fun, I've done it. But when playing with people off the street it's just scary. I have seen people aim for faces to get "head shots". I had a first timer point blank me in the arm because he didn't think I would feel it if he shot my vest. I've seen players shoot at knuckles point blank as they come around the corner. The arms length engagement is not guaranteed. Giving people who have no real training in the sport the use of full auto is just asking for trouble.
I'm pretty sure the new owner of Eastside allows 400fps full auto days that he doesn't advertise here on the site. If you think playing with those rules is safe try it out. I tried, and I just didn't enjoy it.
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Post by X on Nov 16, 2012 23:49:55 GMT -5
One reason full auto may not be allowed is due to game play reasons. Put someone with a support gun and a box mag in a cqb choke point and they could hold that area forever. Just a thought.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using proboards
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Post by Sleepy on Nov 17, 2012 0:00:08 GMT -5
This is insane. I play with guns around 290 FPS, and can shoot just as far as my 400+ Guns. I play solid cqb, and only cqb. I have a chipped tooth from a 240 FPS gun. Higher FPS only gets the bb there faster, not to mention cause injuries. A full auto blast of 20 430FPS bbs, can scar and disfigure your face for life. At inches away, 350fps can shatter the weak spots of goggles. I aim for <315 FPS personally. No need to cause extra pain, or get scarred for LIFE. My friend has 5 scars across his forehead, and he was wearing face protection...
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Post by Myers on Nov 17, 2012 0:23:28 GMT -5
I can understand the argument against guns shooting ~400 FPS, but I still don't see the issue with one shooting ~ or less than 350. In my opinion there just isnt enough potential damage to completely ban full auto. If you don't want to risk getting a chipped tooth or have a welt on your face, then get a face mask. (Which I generally experience at least 1 face shot a game. Fuck it, it happens. You have a welt that lasts 2 days max. Stop acting like its a serious threat to someones life.) Don't like getting your hands shot up? get some decent gloves. All potential injuries from full auto CQB games >350 FPS are easily avoidable. It honestly relies on the choice of the player whether or not they want to make that risk.
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Post by Sleepy on Nov 17, 2012 0:55:27 GMT -5
Well, scars don't typically last two days.
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Post by TheEnd on Nov 17, 2012 1:37:22 GMT -5
Which I generally experience at least 1 face shot a game. Fuck it, it happens. But what we are saying is that instead of just 1 face shot, you will be catching 5-30 in the same amount of time depending on who shoots you. You have to think beyond "fuck it". For starters field owners don't want people being hurt on their field. We play a dangerous sport, so we have waivers and insurance, but as a field owner you still want to minimize the potential for people to become seriously injured while on your field. Ever had to deal with a parent who found out their kid was injured on your field? They get a little crazy. In this day and age I wouldn't trust a waiver to completely cover my ass, but I'm not a lawyer. Also, you have to look out for the future of the sport. If a bunch of teenagers start showing up to school with busted teeth, broken knuckles, welts, scars, and brag about having guns and such parents and teachers will start to make a big deal out of it. It's just bad press the sport doesn't need. Although I could get behind a 18+ law. Maybe I see things differently after dealing with the public in a CQB setting.
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Post by Myers on Nov 17, 2012 2:12:40 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but I just fail to see how your last post is relevant to this discussion, TheEnd. I find getting a welt no where near being seriously injured, regardless of how many you get. Got a chipped tooth? Your own decision for not wearing a facemask. That even still, isn't seriously injured. An airsoft gun shooting >350FPS at any range will never cause a serious injury unless you're shot in the eye. C'mon guys, you're acting like airsoft guns are just as much of a danger than a real firearm.
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Post by Sleepy on Nov 17, 2012 2:22:19 GMT -5
So, the quantity of the injuries doesn't matter? Of you get one broken knuckle, it doesn't matter if you get 9 more? And missing teeth, and scars, and cracked fingernails aren't just "welts." And I mean, it is Airsoft, I'm willing I get welts, but not mess up my body to have "fun." It takes the fun out of Airsoft when you could get pumped by 10 bbs at any moment, that could leave you bleeding. Airsoft is supposed to be enjoyable, not just painful. Why would you even need more than 350? FPS just gets the bb there faster. A less powerful gun can be just as accurate, if not way more. And a couple of well placed shots on semi, can be a lot better than a full auto spray and pray.
Edit: also, FPS and full auto are directly related. Getting shot 20 times at 270 FPS is waaaaayy different than upwards of 420.
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Post by Sleepy on Nov 17, 2012 2:32:27 GMT -5
Our cqb place says keep it 3-5 round bursts indoor.
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Post by TheEnd on Nov 17, 2012 3:02:05 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but I just fail to see how your last post is relevant to this discussion, TheEnd. I was trying to explain that there is more to the no full auto rule than people crying over welts. My post was actually quite relevant. An airsoft gun shooting >350FPS at any range will never cause a serious injury unless you're shot in the eye. Seriously? I'm not trying to be an ass, but you have to be kidding me. Never? The things I read on this site, I swear. I'm done.
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