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Post by Gunslinger on Nov 17, 2012 16:15:48 GMT -5
Usually in my experiences (I used to be a member of the old A.C.O. that hosted big indoor games for a while) we felt you had better trigger control in semi, you made all your mid caps (high caps were NOT allowed) last for ever.
I ran at a game this past fall, (the last youngs game) and I ran my m4 on semi only the whole time and have a gbbr that holds like 35 rounds ish each mag and between being shot maybe got off two mags and got plenty on "kills" in between mag changes.
I get that people have FA and want to use it, but it doesn't make any one a better player, usually you end up dumping a mag (or until you have to start winding again) on some one and miss, have to change mags (or wind it back up) and that's when they step out of cover and shoot you. Seen it happen allot.
Any time you have the potential to be LESS than arms length from a opposing player and you have full auto AND a hot gun, you are asking for trouble. I have been shot right in the face by guys not paying attention or just caught off guard in a cqb setting (thanks Livonia;) and it sucks, and the gun was shooting at 350 or so fps and it tore the skin back on my nose and forehead. So some one shooting 400+ in my face would definitely piss me off and I might not be so understanding and I was wearing face protection I had a balaclava on.
I'm like most people I want to wear all the stupid gear I spent too much on and enjoy playing army with some cool people for the day then go home, If I break a finger I am a tattoo artist I'm losing thousands of dollars both in waiting on the appendage to heal and the out of pocket for the hospital bills. So I wouldn't want to go with those parameters. I would how ever go if a team like Hell fish was hosting under the MIA rules and providing we didn't have public "walk on's" using 400 fps rentals and high caps with full auto blazing.
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Post by Zorak on Nov 17, 2012 16:38:53 GMT -5
Breaking a finger, or getting a tooth chipped is far from a serious injury. Both could be easily avoided as well, it's called gloves and a facemask. OK, so this is really an argument about what constitutes a serious injury. From a medical point of view, I have to agree with you. None of those things threatens anyone's life or has significant permanent consequences. They are serious in that they take serious time or money to deal with, may impact someone's livelihood, and hurt like hell. I'm looking for a good time and some stress relief, man, I don't bargain to get hurt playing airsoft in any way whatsoever. A few welts may be a regrettable necessity if we're going to use energy levels people can feel through BDUs, but even broken skin can and should be avoided. Let's also consider the flip side of the "newbs with 400fps guns" argument. A big commercial facility with rental gear can and should draw new players. How many of them will come back often if they routinely see people with chipped teeth, broken fingers, or bloody wounds? I knew some casual paintball players who left the game entirely after bad bruises from bouncing balls. It can take that little damage to turn someone from a paying repeat customer to an ex-player.
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Post by Gunny87 on Nov 17, 2012 19:14:52 GMT -5
Receiving welts, is just part of the game. However once you get shot and it breaks skin, or knocks out a tooth (or multiple teeth) is not acceptable in my opinion. And I can understand that if you get shot in the face (if you're not using full face protection), or in any part of your body that isn't covered is completely at your own risk. Which is why I never play airsoft without full face protection and full sleeved clothing.
I also understand that a gun shooting under 350fps can cause a little bit of pain and/or harm, such as getting shot in the knuckles.
But I personally wouldn't attend a single game at this facility no matter how awesome it is if full auto is being used by people off the street with guns shooting 400fps in a close quarters environment. To me it's just not worth the risk, even if I'm using full face protection, and protection all over my body.
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Bones
New Member
Hellfish! Whaaaaat.
Posts: 538
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Post by Bones on Nov 18, 2012 5:06:00 GMT -5
Anyone who has played CQB a lot, and most of the players on here agree to disagree with anyone wanting to play with 400FPS and full Auto.
For the newbies out there take heed. My very first airsoft game was at Farmington, and I understood right away after that first game why MIA rules are the way they are.
400 FPS is to Hot period! Full Auto is for flakes who do not know how to use their Airsoft guns indoors.
I played one game indoor on full auto after all of the players asked and agreed. Not only were there safety issue's. The game was not very fun, once everyone got into position and just sprayed the place. No movement at all without getting just stitched from bb's.
I for one think that the MIA Standered rules for indoor are more than fair, and make for some good times playing CQB. Anything higher than that can ruin your day.
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Post by Da Vinci - Да Винчи on Nov 18, 2012 9:59:53 GMT -5
It's starting to make more sense why it isn't allowed, but there are still a few discrepancies that don't have much an explanation. It's been said that a gun shooting at or under 350 FPS can do some damage, but isn't nearly as bad as a gun shooting 400 FPS. So, being shot 10 times be a 350 FPS gun is going to hurt less, and have less damage than, a 400 FPS gun.
Which comes to the next point, protection:
Most MiA events require anyone considered a "minor" to have "full-face protection". Talking with a few people on the board, that could mean anything from a paintball mask to approved goggles and a mesh lower face mask. That's a great way to ensure that the younger players, myself included, don't have their teeth shot out or a BB go up their nose. However, I would assume that kind of mentality would stretch out to the older players who might also value their faces, who would then sacrifice the tiniest bit of realism and at least wear a mesh mask. If they get hurt because they weren't wearing a face mask, it should be on them. The "full-face protection" should be strongly recommended for older players as well.
Then it comes down to knuckles. A pair of decent, thick gloves should severely inhibit the BB's power. It isn't even a "should" when you get a good set of gloves, like the more expensive 5.11 series or Oakleys, that are used by the military for a reason. All that being said, accidents do happen. That's not to say #YOLO and go onto the field in shorts and a t-shirt with the most minimal protection required, it's that if you are wearing what you should be wearing, the chances of something going wrong is low, and if something does happen, then is still shouldn't be a big problem because you took the precautions.
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Post by Tank on Nov 18, 2012 10:26:12 GMT -5
The Oakley Pilot gloves offer a good deal of protection, but at point blank range I'm sure you could still be dealt a good amount of damage. What the military buys them for, isn't the same thing we buy them for.
Obviously our first reason for buying them is realism, but they also protect your bare skin from BB strikes, but most any glove would do that. At point blank, however, a lot of the BB's energy would transfer through that thin protection. I've had my little finger shot at a closer range, not anywhere near arms length, it was numb for over a half hour even while wearing my Oakley's.
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Post by Gunslinger on Nov 19, 2012 14:03:28 GMT -5
So I guess my biggest question would be is there a opertunity for MIA members to host a private game?
That's the only way some if not most of us will go. The ones who will go is up to them. It's like the "only the strong survive" thing. The ones who say we as the majority don't know what we are talking about and go, then lose teeth or just flat out get holes shot in them will report back with they're heads in they're hands saying how right we were.
And the ones who will wait for a properly run game with others in attendance will rave about how much better of a time they had (leaving out the hit calling issues you will hear about at every game) then more of the guys who didn't think they minded getting tore through with hot guns blazing on full auto will realize how much more fun and dare I say "professionally" ran game can be.
So is there a chance of that at all. If not then I don't need to keep coming back to this post where people try to argue irrelivent shit (to me)? If so when are you (who ever that might be) going to host and what are the rules? If MIA isn't going to host a game there or the field owners won't rent out a day then we (none of us) need to even discuss it any more. Unless you like to beat a dead horse.
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Post by MayhemXXXFrosty (AndrewMp5k) on Nov 19, 2012 16:50:01 GMT -5
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Post by Overkill on Nov 19, 2012 17:27:58 GMT -5
Wow, honestly can't believe some of the ideas being tossed around.
I don't agree with any sort of "need" for 400 fps within an indoor facility. Give me one situation where you would need 400 over 350 and maybe we can consider it.
Anyways, if its inevitable that you have to have 400 fps, then require safety equipment. Gloves, a full face mask, and long sleeve shirt and pants.
Honestly, why risk the entire business for a measly 50 fps? Waivers are a joke, and if anyone actually got hurt they could easily argue unsafe rules. They would just sue all 7 floors of the place into the ground, and then there goes Tango Down.
If FA is an issue (it can be sometimes) then get rid of the ability to use high-cap mags. Limit them to mid-caps or even real-caps. When they run out of ammo and the game is only half-way done, they will think twice about laying on the plastic.
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Post by Andrew on Nov 19, 2012 20:07:53 GMT -5
Wow, honestly can't believe some of the ideas being tossed around. I don't agree with any sort of "need" for 400 fps within an indoor facility. Give me one situation where you would need 400 over 350 and maybe we can consider it. Anyways, if its inevitable that you have to have 400 fps, then require safety equipment. Gloves, a full face mask, and long sleeve shirt and pants. Honestly, why risk the entire business for a measly 50 fps? Waivers are a joke, and if anyone actually got hurt they could easily argue unsafe rules. They would just sue all 7 floors of the place into the ground, and then there goes Tango Down. If FA is an issue (it can be sometimes) then get rid of the ability to use high-cap mags. Limit them to mid-caps or even real-caps. When they run out of ammo and the game is only half-way done, they will think twice about laying on the plastic. I agree 100% we everything that was just said.
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Post by Melson on Nov 19, 2012 21:20:17 GMT -5
Receiving welts, is just part of the game. However once you get shot and it breaks skin, or knocks out a tooth (or multiple teeth) is not acceptable in my opinion. And I can understand that if you get shot in the face (if you're not using full face protection), or in any part of your body that isn't covered is completely at your own risk. Which is why I never play airsoft without full face protection and full sleeved clothing. Gunny, I remember I was the last person alive on defend the castle at No Limits tucked in a corner in the castle. You came around and oh man did I get lit up from your FA P90. It was hot as all hell and I had rolled up my sleeves. Big mistake because I think every shot you made went to my arms ;D. My arms were pretty torn up the rest of the day. That being said think of every corner in a nine story building that will happen with lax rules. 350 fps, semi for everything except machine pistols can be full auto is the way to run an event. All the times I played at Farmington (much tighter corners downstairs) never had the amount of welts that Gunny did to me that one time at no limits. That isn't to say I am mad at Gunny though or he broke a rule. If I was Gunny I would have lit my camping ass up too!
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Post by snafu on Nov 19, 2012 21:37:49 GMT -5
Its also worth noting the p90 Nelson got lit up by was likely shooting around 290fps...
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Post by Gunslinger on Nov 19, 2012 22:52:38 GMT -5
So once they open is there going to be a private Mia party there maybe once a month type gig? That would be sweet and we wouldn't have allot of these issues to even think about.
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drewroud
New Member
Lipo ready hop up unit
Posts: 486
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Post by drewroud on Nov 20, 2012 0:54:49 GMT -5
MIA rec nights. Oh wait....
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Post by M.S.-ARC on Nov 20, 2012 15:41:04 GMT -5
I just sent them a link to this discussion and a link to the MIA rules. Hopefully that will be enough to convince them to get on board with the rules that have already long been established.
Like I've mentioned before, the Hellfish have already done a little bit of work with them. The place has potential so hopefully we can get things to work out.
They are not yet open so there is no major rush for this. The last time I spoke with them, they were setting up for a January opening.
EDIT. Just got a response that they will adjust to MIA rules and that the web site was just a placeholder until the revised web site goes up.
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