Airsoft Mortar?

[Phantom G3]

I don't know, I still think Tex's idea would work along with the parachute method.

[Shadow (314)]

Maybe if we incorporated the shower effect with a parachute, we could make more of a rocket than a mortar. Launch a rocket shaped object that deploys a parachute during it's apogee then fires its payload downward. That would be cool too.
I'm just a little tired of the shower effect.

[redalert]

That was the basic idea that I had when I suggested putting a parachute on a tornado grenade. Model rocket parachutes would be weak enough to allow you to lauch it out with them open or partial open to the point where they would open slightly after being lauched. It would still be coming down at a decent speed but teh grenade would go off before hitting the ground, so if your still standing around you almost deserve to get hit.

[Phantom G3]

Yah you guys have a point; the Tornado grenade would be done spurting the bbs all over before it hits the ground. But, instead of a tornadoe grenade, get one of those MilSim grenades because of the price.

[Weezy]

Anyone want to Split the "Party Pack" of Grenades? Those look sick!

[Shadow (314)]

How much for how many?
As far as the rockets, we could rig up multiple barrels (4 or so) and actually launch them liek you would rockets. I think 4 of these coming down in the same area at the same time could really devastate anything in the vicinity. Yay!
But whoever brought up the idea that a parachute may not deploy properly was right, that's why I say there should be two parachutes. That would slow the decent more, and make sure that at least one of them work right. I wouldn't want to see one smack someone in the head.
Redundancy = good

Edit:
I just had a thought. Maybe we can bring a whole new aspect to this idea. What if we launched a smoke bomb or stink bomb and called it 'chemical warfare.' Anyone in the smoke or stink is out. I know many places don't allow 'hot' burning smoke, but there are alternatives, including stink bombs. I think that this could be one of a few possible munitions used with our rocket/mortar idea. Also, it would be much lighter than some of the heavier rounds we have discussed so far.

[El Phantasamo]

Feb 11, 2009 21:27:15 GMT -5 Shadow (314) said:

.....But whoever brought up the idea that a parachute may not deploy properly was right, that's why I say there should be two parachutes. That would slow the decent more, and make sure that at least one of them work right. I wouldn't want to see one smack someone in the head.
Redundancy = good

Edit:
I just had a thought.....What if we launched a smoke bomb or stink bomb and called it 'chemical warfare.' Anyone in the smoke or stink is out. I know many places don't allow 'hot' burning smoke, but there are alternatives, including stink bombs....

Ok, what if BOTH parachutes fail to deploy?
"blast radius rule" systems are still safest. Im sure most, if not ALL the event organizers and field owners here will agree that if it needs a parachute to be safe, its not safe if the parachute(s) fail, and that's too much liability.

As for launching smoke or stink. I would say NO to the stink.
As for smoke, It depends on how heavy it is, and if ALL flame is contained in the device. Even if you can accomplish that, i doubt it could be safely used.

I'm not trying to be a naysayer, I'm just a realist.
I don't want to see all your hard work and engineering go to waste if you can't use this stuff at an event.

[Knief]

If you hit me with a nasty smell that my camo and gear pick up for more than a few minutes, believe me, you're not going to have a good rest-of-the-day.

Your best idea so far has been the sabot idea. Something that will come apart mid-air to release bbs, and is light and soft enough not to cause injuries if you accidentally catch somebody in the head with it. Launch that like you would a nerf football with a 203 shell and you've got a winner.

[Shadow (314)]

Smoke then. Smoke is used on fields, I don't see why it wouldn't work here. Especially if it is a cold burning object.
I do like the sabot round idea. This would be more like a rocket. I can't stress enough the safety flaws though. There would have to be many redundant safety features such as a padded front it, multiple parachutes, keeping weight to a minimum, compression on impact to lengthen the time of impact, and anything else we can think of.
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Thought: what about just water balloons, or flour balloons. I've read other people saying they don't want flour on them. If that's the case, sure. Others have said that water will damage their electric gun. I disagree. Again, if this is a common problem, it doesn't have to be. Just a thought to keep it rolling. Eventually, there's gonna be someone(s) who develops a safe and effective way. It could be you. Don't give up!

[bigj]

You know what might be interesting, and cheap if it could be worked out, tennis balls with holes poked all over, filled with Talc (some people have flour allergies), and somehow under light pressure; so when it hits the ground Talc spews in all directions to simulate an explosion. You could do the same thing with the nerf footballs. I doubt anyone would complain about getting hit from one of those as long as it was not point blank range.

[littlecyclone]

Feb 12, 2009 0:43:47 GMT -5 bigj said:

You know what might be interesting, and cheap if it could be worked out, tennis balls with holes poked all over, filled with Talc (some people have flour allergies), and somehow under light pressure; so when it hits the ground Talc spews in all directions to simulate an explosion. You could do the same thing with the nerf footballs. I doubt anyone would complain about getting hit from one of those as long as it was not point blank range.

That would be light enough.. Would still need a decent propulsion system.. Maybe some kind of spring setup in a vertically standing PVC pipe? Or even maybe one powered with CO2 with some type of release valve... I'm not much of an engineer At any rate that would provide some realistic mortar action, raining powder filled tennis balls on the field

Although.. if you could find a decent spring system to use.. Maybe you could rig up a PVC + spring to use as a PIAT/Bazooka.. Possibly even using demilitarized LAW's? I've seen a few of those floating around here, someone else'll need to chime in on whether or not that would be feasible or just to stick with PVC and building it from scratch. But I'm just thinking out loud at this point. It gets lonely on the night shift

[redknight]

I was just going to suggest a PIAT! Not many people know that it launched with a spring to assist it. Good idea Cyclone, a foot pedal/lever could be used to cock the thing... There are demilitarized launchers, but I think that a piece of painted PVC would get the point across without freaking out people, and it would be a lot cheaper. I have plans for building a launcher, but I have to get my brother-in-law to assemble the thing. The plans call for some heavy equipment which he has in his machine shop. His current project is a flamethrower, shooting between 1200 - 2000 bbs per second at speed around 250 fps, which he will have finished, most likely by monday. He promised the guys at Spy-ops a demonstration as soon as it is complete. Then we are going to build the mortar which will be capable of launching a nerf football about 300 meters. we are considering fitting the nerf ball with holes filled with bbs and a shotgun primer fitted into the nose inside a padded mechanism that will denonate the primer on impact and propel the BBss outward in all directions. We are also considering non-explosive methods of propelling the BBs as well. I will post pics as soon as we have a working prototype.

[Phantom G3]

I seen that a person made a working WWII airsoft bazooka on the WWII airsoft forums. It used PSI to launch the nerf ball as far as you needed. Jeeze, 1200-2000 bbs per second? That would be crazy...it would be more devastating and more realistic if they were on fire .

[Tex]

Sorry, but you won't be "legally" launching a nerf football 300 yards. By legally, I mean legal by MiA standards. That would harness entirely too much force behind it and definitely cause major damage if hit at close range. 100-120 yards is about what you can expect out of a nerf football, and with that propulsion, they really do not travel at enough speed to cause damage. I know this from personal experience.

Also, no use of a primer will ever be remotely allowed in a game. Entirely too dangerous. Say it makes direct contact with a player and explodes on them. Not cool.

Don't know what you plan to use to propel the nerf football, but anything outside of propane will not be allowed. We even decided that C02 was too powerful of a propellant to be used.

Also, EL, while the MilsimLabs guy has a decent looking product... there's no reason not to use a nerf football. They're used around the country, maybe even world, as "rockets" or "mortars" and really don't post any threat so long as they aren't launched at a ridiculously high speed.

Shadow, reading through this thread, I can't help but notice that you just can't seem to accept that fragmentation rounds will simply be unacceptable. If safety wasn't an issue, a lot of things could be used, for instance, cqbrs complete joke about launching a Tornado grenade... he was *entirely* joking, and you guys went way too far with it.

What I don't think you realize is that you're trying to do something that has been done before... and is not currently used because it was entirely ineffective. It only works in open fields... not if there are any trees at all, and even then, is quite inaccurate. I say this because I built one from an inert LAW and then used it, realized how pointless it was, and then sold it.

[Shadow (314)]

You're right, I cannot except that it can't be done. You can't go faster than sound, you can't reach the moon, you can't build a Terabyte HD, and now we can't build a safe, working airsoft mortar.
Sure it's been tried before, and people are gonna keep trying untill we get it right, then keep trying to perfect it. If nothing else, it gets us thinking and having fun. Just because we give an idea, doesn't mean we're gonna go out and use it on people right away. We'll use that idea and try to come up with something cheaper and safer. Don't worry, you won't have tornado grenades raining down on you any time soon.