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Post by Ghast on Mar 15, 2012 12:33:42 GMT -5
Hell no, best budget M4 is still the G&G Combat Machine M4.
And the best budget AK is a DBOYs.
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Post by Ike on Mar 15, 2012 12:45:41 GMT -5
Yes, CYMA makes the best budget AKs IMO, JG makes the best m4 (from my view, I don't mind the externals, as long as my internals are nice). Edit: budget m4, not best. I don't have much experience with different brands of AKs, but I agree completely with the M4 statement. The combat machines are typically assembled well from the factory, which makes them a solid choice for people who don't know about gearboxes or how to tune them, but 30 minutes of work on a JG will definitely have it outlasting the G&G. The gears are better, that cream piston is great, and the stock neo magnet motors are phenomenal on the enhanced versions. The ferrous motor that comes in the lower end ones isn't the best, but sure beats the G&G. The stock G&G motor is trash (no torque or speed), the piston is weak, and the barrel is probably the worst quality barrel to come with a stock gun. If you know your way around a gearbox, a JG is far and away the better choice.
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Post by a1 (Babez) on Mar 15, 2012 16:59:50 GMT -5
If you know your way around a gearbox, a JG is far and away the better choice. But nobody likes those hideous gray plastic bodies...
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Post by njn551 on Mar 15, 2012 17:01:52 GMT -5
If you know your way around a gearbox, a JG is far and away the better choice. But nobody likes those hideous gray plastic bodies... Spray paint. Boom, goodago.
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Commie
New Member
Better red than dead
Posts: 198
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Post by Commie on Mar 15, 2012 17:06:50 GMT -5
In my eyes, the best budget AK would have to be the Echo1 Ak74u.
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Post by njn551 on Mar 15, 2012 17:14:39 GMT -5
In my eyes, the best budget AK would have to be the Echo1 Ak74u. Echo-1 is rebranded clone guns. Basically. E-1 is like Dell. They contact the people that make the clone guns, have them make the gun to their specs (usually a lighter spring, some metal bushings). Put e-1 logos on it, and raise the price. Not and guns, but if you can do basic tech work, there are better options. Ghast, I did say IMO. Doesn't mean that you have to agree with me.
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Post by Fugazi on Mar 15, 2012 18:31:16 GMT -5
In my eyes, the best budget AK would have to be the Echo1 Ak74u. Echo-1 is rebranded clone guns. Basically. E-1 is like Dell. They contact the people that make the clone guns, have them make the gun to their specs (usually a lighter spring, some metal bushings). Put e-1 logos on it, and raise the price. Not and guns, but if you can do basic tech work, there are better options. Ghast, I did say IMO. Doesn't mean that you have to agree with me. Never had an Echo-1 that impressed me. You're 100% right. There is is earthly reason to actually pay for a CYMA when a G&G is an option for a similar (often less) price.
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Post by trustkill on Mar 15, 2012 20:21:56 GMT -5
JG AS74U. Aka AKS-74UN. This thing is an effing tank. Shimming was spot on, 1 small tweak for motor height and awesome compression. Been running on an 11.1v Lipo now for awhile, zero problems.
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Post by njn551 on Mar 16, 2012 10:15:28 GMT -5
Can some of you guys tell me why you think the CM m4s are the best budget ones?
It seems kinda dumb that flopper (ARC on AS, I might confuse you guys if I say ARC, I am talking about flopper) had to make a thread here, to ask if he was right. I don't see how he can go over there and claim he is right, then come over here making sure. You say that the CMs are better, then you come here asking. Not entirely sure.
So tell me, what makes the CMs better than a CYMA m4 and a JG m4.
My guess is "well, they are "proven" to be better" or something like that with nothing to back it up. Knief just said stuff like "g&g did what no one else had done before, they recalled their products". IMO, all that means is that those products were so bad, that they would have been forced to shut down sooner or later because of a bad name.
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Post by Knief on Mar 16, 2012 10:47:48 GMT -5
Quoting half of a sentence out of context doesn't give you a leg to stand on. My larger point was that G&G has made clear strides to improve both their customer relationship as well as the quality of their product. At the time, issuing a recall was unheard of in airsoft (still pretty much is), and their follow up model, the 2005 version, was easily the best M4 on the market for years.
G&G Combat Machines aren't for you, and this is why:
Don't fall into the same trap that Alex does and assume that every player the world over views every AEG as a project. If you intend to upgrade the gun beyond the more basic barrel, bucking, or slightly stiffer spring, then sure, there are better places to start from than a G&G CM. But most entry level players, the ones who ask "what am best gun for $150?" don't have the experience or knowledge to properly tune a gearbox. Beyond that, many players don't have the time, drive or money to put a lot of work into a gearbox. For the player looking to pick up a budget AEG that works well out of the box for a long time, G&G's CMs can't be beat. With the clones, the odds that you need to repair or replace parts in the short term is significantly greater. It doesn't really matter how strong your gears are if they're shimmed and lubed poorly.
Like Ike said, if you plan on getting into the gearbox immediately, then you can make the most out of a clone. If not, then you're looking at a much higher chance of owning a paperweight in a few months. For a player just starting out, that can be enough to sour him on the hobby and end his short career.
Regarding the strength of parts, remember that you're talking about relative strength. G&G's motors and pistons are weak if you're trying to pull a stiff spring or if you're looking for above average ROF. They're not, however, too weak to turn the stock box just dandy, and that's all that the intended market needs. Admittedly, they could use a better barrel. But that's a cheap enough and easy enough upgrade that I don't see it as a huge impediment. Yes, I draw a distinct line between upgrades that require you to open the box and upgrades that don't.
Look at it this way, you're spending about the same amount of money on a G&G CM as you would your average JG. What you get with the JG is a bunch of strong parts put together by a blind man in the ugliest shell of a gun they can reasonably market. With the G&G, you get a bunch of mediocre parts put together very well in a decent looking but still not pretty shell. The market for the two guns is clearly different. I would never suggest that a player like you get a G&G CM because of what I know you would want to do with the gun. Likewise, I would never suggest that the average beginner get a JG because of what I know he can't do with the gun. So I'll reiterate it one more time: For a new player looking for a budget gun, the G&G Combat Machine is the best option on the market.
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Post by njn551 on Mar 16, 2012 11:15:56 GMT -5
No one can really say that any of them are the "best" for ANY category.
IME < please look at that<, the JGs last longer than the CMs. If something does break, it's almost always a cheaper fix then with a CM. Even without tuning. CM gears are crap, even with better shimming than the JG ones, they generally don't last longer. Pistons aren't any better installed, not like any brand corrects AOE. Motor height might be better due to some actual QC with CM, nothing that 5 minutes and a screwdriver can't fix. Anyone can do that.
JGs may not be the best, but IMO, they are a much better use of money than a CM.
If you go over to ASM you will learn a bit about CMs that my guess is you didn't know about.
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Post by M.S.-ARC on Mar 16, 2012 11:59:44 GMT -5
Claiming that Knief doesn't know what he is talking about is like asking to get intellectually raped.
You're still new around here. You'll see.
This is debate mostly a preference thing although I agree with knief based on my own personal experience. Clearly you aren't going to change his mind and he isn't going to change yours. Just agree to disagree and move on. Just don't imply that we do not know what we are talking about just because we have a different opinion to yours.
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Post by njn551 on Mar 16, 2012 12:24:00 GMT -5
I didn't mean to make it sound like he (or you) doesn't know what he is talking about. I know that he does. I am around him all the time over on AS. I guess since this isn't gonna go anywhere, we might aswell just stop this. Just trying to make a point. You guys can think whatever, I can think whatever. That's the only good thing abou 'merica that I can think of right now.
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Post by Gimpalong on Mar 16, 2012 13:10:43 GMT -5
I rarely take issue with anything written by ARC, Knief, Ghast and a few others, but that doesn't mean that there are not differing opinions out there. Just look at the recent thread about Classic Army and you'll see TheEnd making a strong argument for Classic Army, with other insisting otherwise.
MiA is a relatively small community and as a result shifts in opinion occur infrequently because there are fewer people to cause that shift to occur. If you go to a larger board, like Arnie's, you'll find a more diverse panoply of opinions on technical issues, etc because the community is bigger and more people are putting in their two cents (for good or for ill). I'm not knocking MiA; I think it is a valuable resource, but there are lot of other great resources available as well.
The best thing to do is to utilize several forums in order to formulate your own beliefs about a technical or gun issue.
For example, if there was a Polar Star EPAR forum, I'd probably rate the opinions on that board higher than I would comments regarding the EPAR on this forum simply because this forum is not focused around the EPAR. Likewise, places like ASM provides a great resource for technical discussion that might be lacking here.
The key is really to digest a lot of different material from many different places and come to a conclusion from all the data that you've been able to digest rather than relying on one forum or a few individuals to tell you what's correct.
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Post by njn551 on Mar 16, 2012 13:41:57 GMT -5
Yes, you guys here are who I go to for GBBs.
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