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Post by Tex on Oct 18, 2009 17:51:12 GMT -5
Superoo, I can tell you that you, and your little friends will not be welcome to any game I host. The fashion in which you walked up the peninsula, clearly was that of a dead person. You definitely deceived the other team and if it had been my OP, you would have been given a swift boot off the field. You're very lucky that the mods were completely bogged down with other forms of rampant cheating. As far as I am concerned, you're just as bad if not worse than those who did not call their hits.
I also got to witness individuals shooting too hot for close quarters charge up to a building and unload on people. They also we young. I just can't understand why you children can't follow the rules. It's games like these which make us veterans truly dislike playing with anyone under the age of 18.
And to the kid who took his goggles completely off his head when I was about to shoot him. Like, had the trigger halfway pulled no more than 20yards from you, I seriously hope I never see you at another event.
Other than that, I enjoyed the game during the first half. Teams were evenly balanced numbers wise and the Green team had a continuous attack going on the village at any given point in time. However, the 2nd half was a little ridiculous. The teams ended up being 2:1 due to a good amount of tan people leaving due to the rampant cheating (that's when you know you have a problem, especially since all of them were veteran players).
I didn't like that there were props on the field that couldn't be used when you found them. For instance, I was an engineer and spent 15minutes disabling some chemical warheads I had found because the objective I was given was to disable any forms of munitions. Little did I know, these weren't considered munitions, and couldn't be "destroyed" but rather were items to pick up later in the day. The green team was then able to retrieve them due to the confusion. And either the missions were too vague, or Kaboose was just unable to read them properly, because we never understood what exactly we were supposed to do, or where to take them.
I personally didn't have much fun at all as the day went on until I ran around with a pistol accumulating a plethora of kills at the very end. The cheating just ruined it for me. Not to mention the rather large amount of over killing. The ones that pissed me off the most is when I was blatantly standing still in the middle of the open field having a conversation with a moderator who was decked out in an orange vest. I was shot right in the neck and face with a nice burst of bb's. I think we need to start punishing these individuals with a trip back to the cars for an hour, and see if that wakes them up or not. Because it just continued through out the day.
Never the less, it was always nice to see my old friends and such from across the state. If it weren't for that I would've left well before the game was over.
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Post by Canto on Oct 18, 2009 17:58:11 GMT -5
I would like to thank everyone that braved the unseasonably cold weather for coming out and playing at Operation: Flash Fire IV in Bangor, Michigan. It's always good to see old familiar faces and new ones as well. Lots of memories and good times too. I was happy to see that the field played well. I saw a few people use the creek to their advantage in moving around. A huge amount of firefights all around the field simultaneously, which is always nice to see too. The MiA member raffle was a huge hit. That was an unexpected throw-in for us, I'm glad to see a lot of people liked it too. We will definitely try it at our next event as well. I won't be singling out any particular team or group on this next portion... The sportsmanship or lack there of was appalling... I can't even remember how many times I was called on the radio to investigate claims of players not calling hits. I mean seriously guys? Are we in elementary school? Is this that math quiz you forgot about? Or did you just blatantly ignore authority, rules, respect for other people, honor, and honesty? I understand there is a margin of error for players who honestly don't know they've been hit. Tactical vests, clothing, terain, cover, etc; are all factors that may change a situation so that someone honestly doesn't know. That's alright, it happens. However this was beyond excessive... In order to run enjoyable, challenging, and interesting airsoft events, we require the cooperation of the player base itself. Without that, it cannot function and breaks down... - Cheating Players (not calling hits). - Firing on players who are out (Kill Rag, Hands Raised, Weapon Raised). - Purposely aiming for the head and/or face. - Not adhering to bleed out rules. - Disrespect (insubordination) towards moderation/event staff. - Disrespect (insubordination) towards other players. - Not identifing targets before engaging. - Breaking capture rules because you want to (You know who you are). - Removing goggles... Do I have to comment here... If you were any of the people who engaged in the following actions. Congratulations... You have now ruined airsoft for several hundred people for the rest of the 2009 and upcoming 2010 airsoft seasons. New rules and regulations to remedy the problem may be, but not limited to: - 16+ or 18+ age restriction.- Vouching System. Players who are under the age requirement for a particular event. - Kill rag requirement for playing. No kill rag, no play. (As if someone walking in the open with a weapon slung and their hands up isn't enough...) - Zero Tolerance. Constantly lighting up dead people? Not calling your hits? Breaking rules or subverting authority because you can? Congratulations. You're gone. Plain and simple. I do apologize for all the people who drove long distance to only have this event spoiled by highly unprofessional, and unsportsmanlike individuals. You can trust that we will do everything in our power to prevent this from happening again. Again, I would like to thank everyone who came out, braved the temperatures, and endured the poor conduct of some people. To the guy who lost the brown leather wallet. Sorry dude, we searched everywhere. Nothing...
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koulaid
New Member
Sniper!
Posts: 521
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Post by koulaid on Oct 18, 2009 18:16:27 GMT -5
Alright here is my overview of what i saw. I was sniping the whole day at flash fire. Hit calling was a HUGE factor. There was at least 10 kids who didn't call their hits when i shot them. Especially when i clearly hit their cheeks; they just duck back down and acted like nothing happened.
Another thing on the tan side was that the medics suck! I was killed at least 5 times. And out of all the 5 times there was no medic to be found ANYWHERE. The medic disbursement was horrible. From what i was told ALL the medics were in the city. Why?? They should've known half the team was by the peninsula or on the ridge. At least one of them should've stayed back.
Lastly, NO ONE listened to the CO on the tan side. More than half the team did their own thing and didn't really care about the objectives. Also the CO for the tan side wasn't really being a captain. The objectives wasn't told to most people and there was a lot of confusion on the field.
Other than those things i had a blast!
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Post by Paranox on Oct 18, 2009 18:54:28 GMT -5
I had the pleasure of killing the two knifers. I had the privilage of being captured with you, damn them NATO guys treat prisoners well. Yeah it was actually pretty funny. We walked with them for a while. One of them was nice enough to hold my gun while I put some BB's into a new mag. We came, wrote our names down. They let me use a speed loader of theres and then they led us back. Overall they were some good guys. - Nathan/PaRaNoX
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Post by Short Round on Oct 18, 2009 18:59:51 GMT -5
As someone who doubled as a moderator and a player I saw some major issues with cheating. I can understand if a bb hits you in an area where you don't feel it which happens to all of us. But when you take hits, flinch and then still not call it. That's over the top and absurd. Trigger control was a major issue, as if my bright pink kill rag on top of my head, and my hands in the air were not enough to show you that I'm dead.
Other then that, I had fun. And met some pretty cool people out there, and I hope I can see you guys around next time.
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Greener
New Member
Team F.L.A.K.
Posts: 95
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Post by Greener on Oct 18, 2009 19:41:38 GMT -5
I had a blast despite the players that didnt call there hits. I really liked the new medic system it was pretty interesting. I met a lot of people and I cant wait till the next event. Also where are those pictures?
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Post by Hellbender on Oct 18, 2009 19:47:13 GMT -5
Just to clarify, it was someone else yelling to shoot you two. I was the Moderator on the ridge, in-game at that moment, and made the decision to override the knife kills. I had heard people saying you claimed to be out. Yes, they just got knife killed and may have just been pissed. But that, coupled with the fact that you had no weapon, it was easy for you to pass through our group and be mistaken for a dead player. Yeah guys knife kills aren't supposed to be a trophy, there around to be a safety precaution. Airsoft is mil-sim and generally your not going to waltz into an enemy area and start knifing people. The fact that you didn't have a weopen with you made it very unclear that you were in and they could have EASILY shot you if they new you were in. If they see you shoot them. It sounds like you moved in on them stay 15 feet away and pick them off from behind cover or make a desperate charge. But never try to get a knife kill through deception. Its not fair to all the players that paid to go out and play a game of airsoft not tag. Quoted from Big texas' post "Superoo, I can tell you that you, and your little friends will not be welcome to any game I host. The fashion in which you walked up the peninsula, clearly was that of a dead person. You definitely deceived the other team and if it had been my OP, you would have been given a swift boot off the field. You're very lucky that the mods were completely bogged down with other forms of rampant cheating. As far as I am concerned, you're just as bad if not worse than those who did not call their hits." To those who were in the knife killing incident. There were two of us, both alive, both had weapons drawn (pistols) and the only deceiving part about this is that we came from behind. The reason why we did not have our main weapons is because we were both marksmen with a 50ft engagement limit and we left them behind on the green team’s ridge where we were in deep cover. The reason we did not open fire with our pistols is because superoo was using a single shot Colt and I was using a Glock AEP which was not feeding correctly and so we both knew we were going to draw attention of the entire team in front of us and so decided on knife kills. We did in fact put our pistols away when we got through most of the first half of the team only so we could use both arms, as we were walking towards the second half of the green team occupying our base, we were both shot by RadioFlyer. Any of you could have easily shot us. I know some of you watched us walk up to you and then stab you. Nobody asked us if we were dead and if they did we would say we were alive and gladly get shot or stabbed ourselves. It was our only option in that situation and a proven military tactic. I agree it was very unorthodox, but it was a legal move. (I heard there was another using a corn cob as a weapon when he ran out of ammo.)
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Post by Thor on Oct 18, 2009 20:00:06 GMT -5
The thing of it is though, it seems to me anyways that you were counting on the other team assuming you were dead. That's not realistic, because a corpse isn't going to walk up to me and stab me. It falls along the same line as a guy walking into a room and bang killing everyone in it because he caught them unawares. In a real life situation had you been enemy combatants walking toward a group on the opposing side unarmed, you would have been shot or captured immediately.
Now, had they all just lit you up, you'd probably be on here bitching about getting over shot.
I honestly hadn't heard about this incident until I read about it just now, but I would have called bullshit on it then as well.
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Post by Dingo™ on Oct 18, 2009 20:04:41 GMT -5
Well, beings everybody has already spent 2 1/2 pages on the cheating of this event, I wont even mention any of it. I am very impressed with the Armory Airsoft event staff. Aside from having plenty of mods/ field marshals, all problems that I seen were handled very professionally and that is what really saved it for me. Good job guys. Anyway, as for me and the other guys, it was a great Op and we all had a blast. The first half of the day wasn't the greatest, only because there was lots of holding bases and stuff. Still fun though. And I was not impressed when I was told to enter one of the buildings to retrieve a computer, and when I walked in, there were four desktop computers, a laptop, and a monitor. That was a pretty interesting ordeal.... After being switched to the green team, we were sad at first, but ended up having way more fun. The only thing greater than being on the largely skilled tan team is beings against them! And usually I hate being on the green team because stereotypically green equals n00b (which of course was the case) but I was pretty impressed with a lot of the guys. Immortals did pretty good as far as I seen, and several random guys that rolled with us at certain points really helped us out. One guy for instance was a kid with a bolt-action and an MP7. "JAY" was written on both the guns. He definitely was big help in our push up the hill from the airfield. Tex, good seein' you as always. We were surprised how working with you went so smooth the first half of the day. But next time, don't count on it.... (Especially after knife killing a few of us at the end of the day before Mudflap shot you...) Kaboose, it was nice meeting you. I thought you did a pretty darn good job commanding. +1 Hope to catch up with you guys again. And again thanks to Canto, Explosives, and gang for running a great Op, even with the overwhelming reports of cheating. And whoever took pics/ video- post soon please! Can't wait to see 'em!!!
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Post by Reaper_BloodBlade (Immortal) on Oct 18, 2009 20:16:43 GMT -5
Another thing on the tan side was that the medics suck! I was killed at least 5 times. And out of all the 5 times there was no medic to be found ANYWHERE. The medic disbursement was horrible. From what i was told ALL the medics were in the city. Why?? They should've known half the team was by the peninsula or on the ridge. At least one of them should've stayed back. quote] That explains it I have nothing else to say. In the city we coudn't figure out how you all got heald so quick. We even shot a few medics and still they got healed. I have nothing else to say. But I was astonished when later in the second half I shot two guys and they put up kill rags and started walking away. I called at them to bleed out so I could captire them and they said "THEY WERE WALKING BACK TO FIND A MEDIC," When i explained that the medic had to come to them they said tan had been walking to medics all day. This might not be a case with all tan but these guys did it. I saw some noob green doing it and explained to them they couldn't either.
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Post by superoo7 on Oct 18, 2009 20:20:00 GMT -5
To all, I do not recall seeing a dead man walking, and if there was I'm sorry, however, I would like to know, how a dead man on my team, was walking from behind enemy lines, when the only ones I know of who had the chance to get there in such a short amount of time, were the two of us doing the knifing. I know that he hadn't just been killed, because there was still a good number of the enemy in between the two of us and our main force. So, there may have been a dead man, but I do not remember him, or understand how he would have gotten there, how ever, if some is to provide a good reason as to how he got there, or does fess up as being that dead man, I will believe them and apologies on the spot. When it comes the issue of carrying weapons, I had my P.O.S. single shot Colt out up until about half way through the knifing.[meaning I walked up the peninsula and into the guys with it drawn] So the second half, no, I didn't have it out, and I'm sorry for the confusion that the mistake caused. I talked to John about it, he said my story appeared legit, and that I had not done any thing wrong, I know he wasn't there, and in fact, the only mod that was there did not agree [Or disagree] With any of these claims.
Glass, I'm sorry, I thought it was you, my bad.
Tex, I agree, maybe it wasn't the most sportsman like or realistic move, however, it was Legal, if you would not allow it, it doesn't surprise me, and that is fine with me.
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Post by triggs on Oct 18, 2009 20:45:08 GMT -5
Honestly I feel cheated......I have to openly say I'd never consider another flashfire game. I love Bangor, great times have been had on the field, hell I had some good times yesterday at Flashfire 4. But here's the bad, and I'm not kidding, this was worse than any other......ok no ANY game I've ever been to. FAH, SFOD, or previous Bangor games. In all my games I have NEVER seen hit calling (or lack there of) as bad as yesterday. Kaptain Krazy hahaha that was me picking those guys apart. I snuck around and proceeded to just pile drive every green that poked into the city. I would ping about 4 guys in the chest (I could hear the THWACK from 200ft away) they'd look down and back up about a foot and they try to spray-n-pray at me. Which received a prompt 2nd round to the chest. And this stuff went on all day, from the moment I started to the end of the day. I can recal many times people screaming and throwing their arms in front of their face as a round nicked them, then proceeding to fire immediately after (no I don't go for head shots intentionally, I will ALWAYS go for a plate carrier or padded clothing, I know my rifle hurts, I've been shot with it, I would never want to bring intentional pain). Also when you are wounded/dead LAY DOWN and stay out of the line of fire. I've seen a couple people posting about over shooting, ones I'm pretty sure were on the business end of my rifle. Sorry, but when people stand in the open or behind cover giving live teammates effective cover they're asking for trouble. I can't count the times I picked off around 3-4 guys and they would stand as perfect cover for the last remaining squad member (I got flipped off quite a few times thanks . Personally I've used the used the medic system before at OP Cerberus and it worked great (well except my luck I always picked the death card ) Seriously though, and I think I speak for my team, that sort of hit calling ruins a day. Many of my teammates that have never been to the field plain don't want to ever come back. To the moderators and Canto though. I thank you, as a field mod/game runner to another, you couldn't have done better. I know I may have come across as heartless, and I'll admit I was a bit steamed when I came to you and explosives on hand, but as a paying player ya know where I'm coming from. Again thanks for at least trying to smooth things out. I know I saw quite a few talking's to later in the day and that was great. Thanks Canto & crew for a good end to the day. Tex I never did get to fondle that MC51 Always good to see you guys though, Asshats, Hellfish, etc. Koulaid: HELL YES had an awsome time just tearing people apart with you for the day
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Post by kaboose1 on Oct 18, 2009 20:49:01 GMT -5
Ok, Well this was my first time being a CO and i think i did decent, and i honestly wouldnt have done as well if it wasnt for Tex, Rogue, the hell fish, Black Talon and all the others who were on my team to help me out. I personally did not see that much issue with cheaters, but i heard a lot of horror stories and i personally agree with the rule changes by canto. I understand younger players have to get attuned to getting hit by BBs but come on, if its really that hard, switch to paint balling.
Another suggestion for moderators, Personally i forgot my kill rag and i think it was either kiki or Koko who forgot theirs, but as a suggestion, i think moderators should go to a thrift store and get a huge thing of of red or bright orange cloth and cut it up as spare kill rags for those who need them.
I personally enjoyed the medic rule, Although i never got to use the medic, but i know how the medic rule from what we do at illinois events run by MAG.
One thing i didnt like was the vagueness and number of objectives. For example, one objective listed that we needed to destroy all munitions. So i gave the order and Tex ended up destroying nuclear war heads and that didnt count. If there are going to be that many objectives and props and envelopes around the field they should be a lot more specific. even the eliminate the communications objective was iffy. And propaganda should have been explained because not too many people understood what that was. I also didnt like the fact that we had to keep the 184th airborne moving along all day. Especially when it was hard to tell who exactly they were especially when some objectives called for more people to be in one area over another. I did enjoy the out numbering of players in the beginning, but the second half was exactly what Tex mentioned, it was 2:1 if not 3:1 taking into conisderation NATO lost some people as the day went on. I also didnt like some people who acted afraid of BBs and weren't pushing when they should of pushed. Over all, I really really enjoyed the event, i think being the CO was a great experience, I must say compared to Illinois events Michigan is the place to be to have fun and meet new people and make friends. I personally have enjoyed Flash Fire the most being as Flash fire 2 was my first event. Im looking forward to more armory airsoft events in the future and i really hope to be making it out to more of them.
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Jay
New Member
Posts: 27
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Post by Jay on Oct 18, 2009 21:12:16 GMT -5
I had a great time, I really loved the zero tolerance and if it was up to me it would be that way pretty much all the time. I played on DPRK and noticed quite a few of our players the first half acted affraid of being hit and did not push enough. The medic rule in my opinion was a great idea but way to many people on DPRK ignored the bleed out from what I saw which made it unfair as from what I saw NATO followed the rule. I noticed a lot of people not calling their hits too, NATO didn't seem bad about it but I could see people in the village not calling some. Great game over all and thanks moderators for dealing with all of the negative, you guys were great.
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Post by Koko on Oct 18, 2009 21:21:11 GMT -5
...pictures?
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