ACO Winter CQB Leagues

[Dutch]

Because of your overwhelming positive response to have CQB action this coming winter, ACO is planning on developing a league program for those that would be interested.

Some questions we would like to have you reply on:

1. In order to serve all of Michigan airsoft players, where do you think the most ideal location would be for a building?

2. After last years results, we would like to hold leagues for the months of January, February, and March. What do you think?

3. ACO would like to hold league play all day Saturday. As early or late as the demand allows us to.

4. League registration would be in advance on a per person fee. Until we can find a great CQB building or house, we cannot say for sure how much this will be but our approx. estimate would be $100 - 150 per per player. This would be a one time cost and you can play as much as you want for the entire three months.

5. Would you like to have airsoft supplies available to buy and if so, what kind of supplies?

6. As of right now, league play scenarios and groups have not been defined. We have some ideas but would like input to make this player oriented. So here's your chance

Oh yes, the age limit is 18+.

Thank you for your input and we hope to make this winter a great for airsoft players!!

[Enkidu]

My responses:

1) If you want to be fair, the building would be located somewhere in the geographical center of Michigan. Maybe somewhere around Lansing. I myself would love to see something in Southeast Michigan, where most of the population (including me) lives.

2) Those months seem fine to me.

3) Saturday works fine for me (and I assume for others) because I don't work or have school on the weekends. I doubt more people could come on this day than any other in the week.

4) I would gladly pay this assuming the building is good and so is turnout.

5) I would like to see, at minimum, BBs and gas. Places to charge batteries would be nice. Goggle and gun rental for those who want to play but don't have any gear would also be a plus.

6) Never had any experience with CQB, I have little to suggest. However, this game sounds like fun to play.

Hopefully this can get kicked off right, and be a shining example of what can be done with Airsoft!

[xaos]

1 - I agree with enkidu...somewhere near the middle of the state would be ideal. Ionia wasn't a bad drive at all last winter (for others' information, I live in Inkster, it's about an hour and a half from here).

2 - January through March sounds great. December would be a better start time, if you can get things together by then.

3 - thumbs up...I'd happily play from 1-2pm till midnight

4 - Sounds good. What about a per-day fee for those who might only be able to make 2-3 weekends?

5 - BBs and gas for absolutely sure. Extra chargers for batteries would be nice, as some people don't own a quickcharger. Gun rentals would be nice, but not all that important, IMO.

6 - Hostage rescue and a "drug raid" scenario are almost a must. Tossing some gas-only games into the mix would be fun too...I know one of the things I like most about playing CQB is that pistols can be just as effective as AEGs.

Good to hear you've got plans, Ryan...having games in Ionia last winter was a great way to get the airsoft fix, and it's always a pleasure to have an alternate gameplay style (i.e. CQB versus normal woodland play) available.

[MayhemXXXFrosty (AndrewMp5k)]

Dutch said:

Oh yes, the age limit is 18+.

Well that, I guess,takes my whole team and I out.... I mean I know a lot of people that would like to participate, but are under 18. Is there anyway maybe ACO could bump it down to 14 - 17 (With parentally signed waiver) and 18+? I think this would create and even better turn out... thus maybe allowing us to get a better facility in a better location.

<edit>
- What is the FPS limit for CQB (360, correct?)
- Are Flashlights manditory?
- Would the new airsoft grenades be allowed in for play?

- Gas, BBs, chargers, maybe a couple guns for sale (GBBs) or something so those who rented some guns (If you do renting) wants to buy one, there's some for sale.

- Maybe some CQB AEGs for sale (Mp5 series, G36c, P90, etc)

- Maybe also some upgrades for sale (Maybe you not satisfied stock, maybe you want up to the max (360fps?)).

- Also possibly some GBB or AEG mags for sale would even be great. I have never really played CQB, but have always wanted to try. I am not sure how many mags I go through....maybe i may need a another... ;D?

- Location probably near Center like Xaos and enkidu said. Maybe even till Ionia, if the facitily was good I'd come back for a couple more times. Is there anyway instead of paying the $150 at once, maybe like a weekly membership? So just in case you don't play often, you didn't loose over $100.
</edit>

[Jacko]

1. Geogrpahic cente rof the lower peninsula, so Ionia/Lansing or thereabouts.

2. Fantastic! I'd say November so people have options to play when hunting season is going on, but that's almost a six month period.

3. Saturday's would be gold for me.

4. That sounds fair, but the building/location would really determine the price in my mind. I'd be willing to pay more if the location was suitable for a good number of scenarios. That was my main issue with the Ionia place. 3 months is 12 Saturday's worth, so $150 is still just over $10 a day. That's super cheap, though I realize some folks can't make it every Saturday and thus they're paying more per day.

5. BB's and gas. I wouldn't mind paying more for quality BB's (AE, Excel, TM) on site. Can't play without them.

6. Location determines scenarios.

[DevilDog]

Excellent idea...

Here's my thoughts.

1. Ionia/Lansing is not centrally located (t is for the southern half of the Lower Peninsula). No matter what, those of us up in the Northern Lower or da UP have to make a drive (since most players are from downstate). Long drives suck, but I'm willing to make it (closer would be nice).

2. Good months to do it in.

3. Saturday is great!!

4. Price is good... I concur with Xaos on the per day fee!

5. suplies are a good thing to have on hand!!

6. As Jacko said, location determines scenarios.

[destrukto]

The closest you guys could ever manage is Gaylord.... (which is about 3 hours away)

Anyways, I'm not too picky considering getting downstate to an op for me would be a strange, new, and probably terrifying experience (Considering I've never been more than 5 miles south of the bridge). Sounds like it would be fun, but I just don't have the means of getting downstate to an op.

At least have some decency and post some pictures for us that live in the land of snow, potholes, and countless miles of unpaved roads ;D (and I have no idea what devildog sees up here, and I've lived up here for 17 years )

[DE50man]

AndrewMp5k2004 said:

Well that, I guess,takes my whole team and I out.... I mean I know a lot of people that would like to participate, but are under 18. Is there anyway maybe ACO could bump it down to 14 - 17 (With parentally signed waiver) and 18+?

In the law, any decent lawyer can utterly destroy even the best of accidental whatever waivers. They would have to pay an outrageous fee to have insurance for the games, which would drive up the price astronomically. Unfortunately, there is not much that can be done for those under 18, besides backyard games or those very large OPs that can afford to pay for insurance. Under the law, a person can operate a potentially lethal device (car) legally under 18, but they are not bound to their actions... So, all that can be done is just wait until you are legally responsible for your own actions.

Dutch, If all goes well this winter, and you run this again next winter, I will have to come out there. Good luck and I hope everything goes smoothly.

[MayhemXXXFrosty (AndrewMp5k)]

[TheHaus]

the thing i got is for location.. I think Lansing or St johns area sounds best.. But then again i live in lansing so im a biast (sp.) Any who i thought i saw a building for sale around here so ill check it out if i get the chance. If you would like.

[Savage]

Like most the others (except our more northern brothers ) I'd have to say Lansing area is pretty central. Not far from Detroit, Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, BattleCreek, Jackson. Far from Grayling/Gaylord, but those guys get to snowmobile out of their backyard so they can drive to airsoft like we have to drive to snowmobile. Maybe we could work in at least one weekend in the series up there if DD or Gypsy could find a suitable location?

Saturday is terrible for me personally. Almost always have to work until 2pm. I could show up for late games though.

Was thinking that $100-$150 one time fee wouldn't be bad for the hardcore guys, but what about bringing a guy who's new to the sport and not ready to make the big investment? Or the guys like me who can only make a few saturdays? Need to keep options open for those situations in my opinion. I'd give players a choice between a one time fee or a higher daily fee.

[xaos]

Savage said:

Was thinking that $100-$150 one time fee wouldn't be bad for the hardcore guys, but what about bringing a guy who's new to the sport and not ready to make the big investment? Or the guys like me who can only make a few saturdays? Need to keep options open for those situations in my opinion. I'd give players a choice between a one time fee or a higher daily fee.

My thoughts exactly. Once you've got the "seasonal" price set, divide it up by the # of weekends you'd have available, and then tack on 5 bucks or whatever.

Also, Dutch...just outta curiosity, assuming this goes through, would it be possible to rent out the building on one of the non-game days...like, to get your team together for a CQB practice on a Sunday or something?

[Dutch]

In reply to some of your questions.

Location: I will be looking in Ionia or Lansing. Ionia will probably give us lower rents which mean lower cost to you.

Pricing: If somebody does not want to pay the full league price because of time conflicts we can look at a couple possibilities. For those registered league members who want to bring friends or new players to the sport, they will be able to simply bring them along and pay a nominal one-time fee for them. For those who are not a registered league member but want to come and play, we will need to pro-rate the price on a per diem basis as Xaos had reccommended in his previous post. Please keep in mind if we don't have enough registered league members up front, ACO will not be able to put the league together in the first place. Being a commercial real estate sales person, which means leasing and selling buildings, you have a lot of up-front costs. ACO will be buying insurance specifically for this matter - yes, we did find a loop hole - ACO will need to pay for first and last months rent in advance to the lease - a security deposit will need to paid in advance - we will need to construct props to help keep scenarios fresh when you come back - money to improve the building/house will need to be invested no matter how perfect the place is for CQB.

If you know or have access to a house or building to lease, please PM me with the square footage. Everybody looking out there for this winter is better than just me.

Thank you very much for your input and please keep communicating your needs on this.

[DevilDog]

We are working on finding a decent location to do some indoor stuff up in the Great White North this winter... Like Savage said, maybe we can work it into the series (that way I can ride my snowmobile to play Airsoft ;D )

As for the drive to Ionia or Lansing.. It's only 3 hours, so a few of us will make it down for the events.

Good thoughts on how to handle the pricing. How many people do you need to sign up for the league to make it a go? I'll nose around up here to generate some more interest.

Due to drill, work and kids, I may have to miss a couple of events. Oh, and when do you need the money? If you put that out it may help in some people's decision making process.

One more thing, do you want teams to register or were you going to assign teams?

Good job Dutch!!! I'm looking forward to playing!!!

[MayhemXXXFrosty (AndrewMp5k)]

Dutch said:

ACO will be buying insurance specifically for this matter - yes, we did find a loop hole

Do you mean like so that people under 18 can play if a signed waiver? Or do you mean in leasing the building? I mean if ACO allowed less then 18 (Like say 15+ or something *15-17 = signed parental waiver*) it could generate more business that way. I could bring at least 5 registered players and 5 more first timers, interested in the sport (May even register afterwards).