Snow Camouflage?

[Merrick]

I've recently had great difficulty searching for snow camo. I would like to find a GI white snow camouflage parka and pants. If anyone know a good place to look, can you please let me know.
Also I hear the parkas run large. Does anyone know about how large they run? I'm 5'9" and 160lbs, small or med?
thanks
-Ryan

[Motown]

Ebay/Surplus Stores are about the only place you'll find them.

[Jacko]

www.SportsMansGuide.com has german snow camouflage for as little as $15.

Here's an example.

[Rogue1]

bert's surplus in grand rapids just got some plain white (swiss, i think?) snow camo w/ large hood(to go over a helmet) for about 25-30 bucks each and also had a few pair of pants. cabela's last few catalogs also had some nice snow camo of several different types for a good price too!i'm kinda large (6' 225#) and the large top will fit me fine and go over my web gear/vest too so i think the size's run big so you can get your normal size and it will still go over your gear.

[sUpEr K-@Z2-K]

cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/index/index-display.jhtml?id=cat470094&navAction=push&navCount=2&parentId=cat470094&parentType=subcategory&rid=&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fcategory-link.jhtml_A&_DAV=MainCatcat470076

[Viking]

Here’s a tip: If you are going to invest in snow camo go the whole nine yards and get a white balaclava, gloves, vest, and boots if you can. Black totally stands out. When in the woods in the summer you notice black because it’s so dark and in the winter when your take black and put it on a white background… I think you see where I am coming from. It may look cool but it’s what’s going to get you spotted. Last GK practice last weekend we did some snow skirmishing and every time I spotted someone was because of their black guns, balaclavas and gloves. I would even recommend picking up some pure white gun camo tape or duck tape and dressing up your gun.

In general it is never a good idea to where black camo when you want to remain stealthy. At night you want shades of blue or grey. Winter you want pure white or a German style snow camo. Summer you want shades of green and in the fall be creative and go crazy with your bad self.

“Well Viking why do SWAT and Special Forces use black camo and gear?”

Because its intimidating, and the more fear you can invoke into the opposing force the better, you will almost never ever see a real operative of any tactical profession use black camo and gear in outdoor and/or long engagements.

[sUpEr K-@Z2-K]

The british SAS use all black.

Perhaps for indoor I'd avoid all black. In the woods I would use a white camo with dark streaks. While you will be more visible against white snow you'll be better camo'd in the woods. Your profile will blend better with the dark tree trunks, and more than likely you'll be in the forest instead of a white field of fresh powder.

[Motown]

Black can be effective at night, only if used in certain enviroments.

Black in the wintertime at night will not be effective because of the outline/contrast that the white backing will have. Wearing black during the night admist thick foliage/shadows IS effective. Though as Viking points out, whatever camouflage scheme you choose to fit the area, you should take steps to to totally break up your outline with that pattern.

The point of camoflauge isn't necessarily to totally hide somebody, but to break up your outline so it is not as distinguishable, and appear to be part of the surrondings. In a close quarters enviroment, where speed is usually paramount, camouflage isn't effective so long as it is a subdued color (in most cases.)

[AlexLarsen]

I don't know if you have ever seen it, but the South Koreans have a snow camo that has a white base and grey swirly lines all over it. Not every effective on open ground, but probably effective in forests.

Viking: Where can one acquire the white gloves, balaclava, and tacvest? I tried piecing together a snow outfit once online and what killed it was the lack of white gear.

[Motown]

US issues white overgloves/helmet covers/balaclavas to compliment the US Overwhite equipment. For a white vest, I doubt you'll be able to find one, a good one at least. Judging from photos, "arctic" troops either wear nothing, or just the regular OD load bearing equipment.

[Viking]

Actually Kaz if you do some research on the SAS you will find that they only use full black in urban environments. Outdoors they use DPM usually a desert 3 color bottoms with woodland DMP top.

Your main objective with camouflage is to break up your image as Motown stated. Bigger patterns are better then smaller ones. The reason for this is at a distance the pattern stays broken where as a smaller pattern tends to blend together, this is why I find tiger stripe and other such similar patterns ineffective.

As for getting a white vest you would most likely need it to be custom made however the most popular way is to buy a spare vest and spray paint it white. After a while the spray paint may begging to crack and peel but in the end it only helps your overall objective of breaking up your outline, or better put making you look less human as much as possible.

Things you want to avoid are inconstant colors, if the vegetation you are operating in is bright colors stay with a bright scheme. Darker colors make you look like a shadow and when you move along the brightly color vegetation you easily stand out. This goes both ways.

The human eye has been trained since we were small lads to pick out lines. You want to avoid lines in your scheme and lines in your gear. Luckily for us here in MI it’s not that bad because the woods are so thick here that you rarely have a clear view. My experience playing in the desert and mountain terrain of Arizona has proven otherwise where there’s not always a bunch of trees between your and the enemy. In Arizona there were a lot of times where I had to trust my camo and sometimes lay out in the open with my camo my only real concealment.

Reflective and shiny surfaces are bad as well. Lots of people tie vegetation to their gear; this is fine except most vegetation has a glossy attribute to it. When running along the surrounding vegetation it is often easy to pick out people who have leaves and twigs tied to them because well bushes don’t usually get up and run. This is why for most marksmen the ghillie construction resources of choice are burlap.

As point man of GK it is imperative that I detect the enemy before they detect me and 9 times out of 10 it’s the opponents battle dress that gives them away and allows me to safely take lead in navigating my team.

[Merrick]

Thanks everyone for you help and advice, I really appreciate the tips. I found a parka and pair of pants from Sportsmans guide. www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=99580
It's a cheesy looking picture but I think that they should work for my needs. If not cabelas had some cool looking stuff. Thanks again.
-Ryan

[sUpEr K-@Z2-K]

for the love of god everybody takes everything I say out of context. I know the SAS use DPM (in fact I've been looking for a WC DPM jacket for sometime now...) I was just saying that they use black, period (Prince's Gate being prime example... how the hell can they operate so well in those hot sweaty gas masks )

As far as accessories go, Viking is right about breaking your profile up. For this reason a White helmet cover (or if you prefer no helmet, balaclava) is a good idea, and a black balaclava under it will only assist in the break up. The gloves can be black, I wouldn't even worry about them (same for the boots). Mainly you don't want any obvious colors (hunting orange... though it would make for some fun) or large pieces of one color (black assault vest, backpack...)

Eagle Technologies custom makes their gear to colors not prefabricated (don't know what the price would be on that). It would be awesome to have a TACV3 in white... (ideas... ;D)

EDIT: I'm going to email Eagle and see what price addition it would be to have their gear made in white... and if it's possible.

[Jacko]

That would be quite cool, Kaz.

[sUpEr K-@Z2-K]

Ha it would be quite awesome if they can. Talking my 6 man team into bulk purchasing 6 $200+ vests might be another story...

I should be given the title 'punking instigator' since I've managed to.... (drumroll please) instigate everyone lately (never been more attacked in my life)