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Post by Reaper6 on Jul 8, 2008 23:27:21 GMT -5
I realize that I am coming into this discussion late, however I would like to point out the legal issues involved when it comes to players that are under 18.
Waivers:
While they do serve a purpose, they are only legal for adults. A minor's signature on a waiver is not legally valid. It does not matter if one, or even both parents sign the waiver. A parent cannot, legally, prevent a minor from filing suit, should the unfortunate happen. Additionally, if the minor, and/or one parent signs the waiver, it does not prevent the other, non-signing parent from seeking legal action. This, naturally, is a very valid concern for many airsoft event hosts/operators and the land owners, as well.
Insurance:
The issue of waivers and minors, can be mitigated, to some degree by having proper event insurance. However, airsoft specific insurance is not standardized yet, and many policies are actually paintball insurance with an airsoft add-on provision. These policies have already seen some plaintiffs finding hole in them and the policy holder has had to fork out a settlement out-of-pocket. For those events that do have insurance, make sure that your policy is, in fact, an airsoft specific policy and NOT a paintball with airsoft add-on policy. This is for the protection of all involved.
The American Airsoft Association's events are insured under an airsoft specific policy, and that policy does allow for minors, 14 and older to attend and participate. However, it is our organization's policy that we allow 16 years and older to attend and participate. For our 18 hour scenario back in April, we were requiring that all under 18 attendees have a parent or legal guardian in on-premesis for the duration of the participants attendance. This is because we have seen many cases where parents have dropped off their children & gone off like the event was some sort of day-care. Regardless of that issue, if something should happen to said minor, then they would need to be there in the unfortunate event that medical attention and/or medical authorization is required.
Conclusion:
Simply put, minors attending airsoft events, regardless of type, is simply a matter of liability. If the field and/or event is properly insured, then I would say that they should be allowed to attend (in accordance with the insurance policy guidelines). They are the future of this great sport. However, should the field and/or event not be properly insured, then I would advise against allowing anyone under 18 to even attend, as the liability they would pose is simply too great.
I sincerely hope this information is helpful and it helps the MiA community to have a better understanding of what the legal ramifications are when allowing minors to participate.
Best regards,
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Killertomato
New Member
Can't we all just get along?
Posts: 421
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Post by Killertomato on Jul 9, 2008 0:48:25 GMT -5
As quite possibly the youngest "airsoft" player on the entire forum, I'd like to say that I agree with Gentner's ideas. I would also like to say that our sue-happy country is REALLY pissing me off.
However, and this goes for any other minor here, WE CANNOT AFFECT FIELD OWNERS' CHOICES. In the (extremely unlikely) event that I go to an op anytime soon, if it's an 18+ (or 16+) op, I'm flat out of luck. I have to tell my dad that he drove 1 and 1/2+ hours for nothing, and my guns will be on eBay by the next morning. And, THERE'S NOTHING I, OR ANY OTHERS OF YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT.
I personally believe that my immediate family will not sue anyone if I'm injured at an op (my mom told me that if I became a lawyer, she would disown me), but you have no way of knowing if that's true, and therefore, you can't trust me.
And, I'm really good at ending topics.
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hart23
New Member
SW40F
Posts: 33
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Post by hart23 on Jul 13, 2008 0:54:45 GMT -5
Me being only 15, I am sort of disappointed to hear the events are mostly 18+. I'm spending a lot of money on a gun that I won't be able to use until 3 years. Worst of all, none of my friends are willing to save money for an decent air soft gun, so that eliminates the option of playing on my private property with friends. I honestly feel screwed for having a passion for something and being restricted from it because of my age.
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Post by Яoman on Jul 13, 2008 1:01:06 GMT -5
Me being only 15, I am sort of disappointed to hear the events are mostly 18+. I'm spending a lot of money on a gun that I won't be able to use until 3 years. Worst of all, none of my friends are willing to save money for an decent air soft gun, so that eliminates the option of playing on my private property with friends. I honestly feel screwed for having a passion for something and being restricted from it because of my age. This is false. Most games ARNT 18+. A few milsims are out right now that are but that isnt MOST games. Not at all.
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hart23
New Member
SW40F
Posts: 33
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Post by hart23 on Jul 13, 2008 1:25:47 GMT -5
Ok, well I still have no transportation to these events. And my cheap ass friends won't spent 200$ on an air soft gun. So that means I'll be "the new kid in school" at these events, not being able to bring someone who i knew prior to.
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Killertomato
New Member
Can't we all just get along?
Posts: 421
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Post by Killertomato on Jul 13, 2008 2:25:46 GMT -5
I'm the same way, except I'm younger than you are and I'm even farther away from an Airsoft field than you are . I do, however, have friends that spend rather large amounts of cash on airsoft, but I've never seen them to to an Op, and backyard airsoft gets boring fast. (unless you've got a high-quality airsoft gun and everybody else is using guns from Wal-mart. Then, the situation is comparable to bringing a battleship to a knife fight, and is thus, hilarious.)
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Post by Canto on Jul 13, 2008 22:59:49 GMT -5
To all the youth who are reading this post, I have this to say...
Field owners have their reasons to either allow or ban or set age requirements.
I cannot stress this point enough. Ask the field owner(s) for a waive on age regulation.
It's like voting for government officials. Don't bitch and complain if you choose not to vote. Same principle; don't complain if you don't ask.
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Post by Chaseman on Jul 15, 2008 12:20:53 GMT -5
You guys all make some good points about insurance, law suits, maturity, cheating, assholes and alike. But the fact remains if you want to admit it or not. The majority of the event money comes from minors playing a game. Sure milsim is supposedly great. I don't know never played it. I have only been playing for a little over a year. I was waiting for my son to be old enough to enjoy something exciting for both of us, and also dangerous. But what makes it dangerous to a parent. HOT GUNS and Not knowing your engaement limit. Last weekend Monk got lit up in the church at SFOD on full auto. The only problem was blind fire and the barrel of the gun was litterally 2-3 inches from his elbow, could of been his face ( dude is sore and was pissed) But I told him that sucks, suck it up get your ass back in there. He was gone. The guy that blind fired was over 18, and Monk told him "I will talk to you about this after game." They did, sorry's where said. Both learned from the mistake. 18 doesn't give you a better attitude or make you an more honorable. You learn that as a kid and carry it through your life. On or team we have Now 15 - 46 and they are all honorable men. You have to make a boy a man! Just cause you get older doesn't make you a good man. I like airsoft for my son and my team, not for the shooting of others, but for the trust you place on a teammate, the honor you make and learn. the team work, the new friendships where you don't have to explain airsoft, they just get it and you have something in common. feeling the weight of a full vest and appreciate what are guys are carrying so we can have a little bit more understanding about what our troops face every day. How easy it is to get shot and what they feel when the hair on your neck stand up from a feeling of being in the scope. Lastly I hope you guys can see where I'm coming from. Airsoft is a good thing for our youth it teaches a lot more than taking a life. It teaches respect for others, a little gunsmithing, counting on others, and not be the lone ranger. If anything we need to lower the age limit. I was a cub scout den leader when Monk was in BSA. if BSA did what we do in airsoft. I still would be a den leader.... I would like to see some of you older airsofters take the lead and start teams with mixed age groups and you'll see a positive difference too. Another thing I am proud of, is our younger team mates A's and B's on their report cards.
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Post by Reaper6 on Jul 15, 2008 19:51:53 GMT -5
Chaseman, you make a great deal of sense. I wholeheartedly agree with you. I only posted what I did to make sure that all involved can make an educated decision. Our youth are the future of this sport. Anyone who thinks differently, is deluding themselves.
I will comment on one more thing, however. In respect to our youth, it all starts at home. The parents are where I lay the blame for most kids who don't act right. If they are doing their jobs as parents, then the kids will do just fine. If the parents are weak and simply give the kids what they want to keep them happy, then the kids do not learn how to value what they have, and to respect themselves or others. This is the fundamental break-down with today's youth, as I see it. It would appear that you're doing a damn good job there Chaseman, Keep it up!
Respectfully,
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SkyPilot
New Member
Asshat - SkunkWorks Division
Posts: 911
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Post by SkyPilot on Jul 15, 2008 20:39:36 GMT -5
Personally I believe the parents not only should be at the field for kids age 16 and under, but should be in the field with them. Side by Side, running, shooting together.
With all liability aside. This would create or strengthen a bond between father and son/daughter or mother and son/daughter. But more than just bonding with mom and dad, it's teaching the youth self respect, honor, dignity, communication, teamwork, and sportsmanship.
Chaseman, Stang, CQBR's dad (sorry forgot your name) are just a few parents that come to mind that support their children and is a great example of what this sport needs for the young generation players.
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Post by Chaseman on Jul 15, 2008 20:51:53 GMT -5
Thanks a lot A3, I look forward to the first issue of TAR in a few weeks. We really enjoy the game and having a diverse team. we all get along great and have way to much fun.
Thanks Skypilot, don't forget Mr & Mrs Moore, Greyfox's Dad & Mom. They make events at SFOD happen. Plus Coreys Mom is always taking pictures and making sure everyone there is having fun. Mr Moore comes out and shoots with us too. Hell they gave us tickets to CCR Sunday night, Monk and I took my wife and my daughter and hung out with the Moores and Greyfox and Connor even was there, good times because of airsoft. I would rather my son make friends in the airsoft community, than a bunch of thugs and whatnot.
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Post by bigc on Jul 18, 2008 19:50:50 GMT -5
Well put Sky and Chaseman!
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Post by Barrett on Jul 19, 2008 14:27:32 GMT -5
It's just a matter of maturity. I could have my AEG in a case or waving it around out the window pointing it at cars. But age is a factor. Would you trust a 7 year old with an airsoft gun or a 17 year old?
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Killertomato
New Member
Can't we all just get along?
Posts: 421
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Post by Killertomato on Jul 19, 2008 17:48:24 GMT -5
Well, I've known 7-year-olds that keep their fingers off the trigger and their weapon on safe and a 17-year-old who ran around shooting at random people in a park not far from here, so age is not everything.
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JD
New Member
Not cqbr
Posts: 102
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Post by JD on Oct 7, 2008 13:15:59 GMT -5
"Recreational and very loosely based Mil-Sim Games. Much like most of the Events that were held this year and last. This allows the younger kids to get involved in Airsoft and see what its like, and to see if its for them. They get to play with those adults who attend and allows everyone to have a decent time and a day of trigger pulling."
In my opinion, when minors go to these types of events, their level of maturity should judge whether they would be permitted to attend more complex games. Those who present themselves as more mature, responsible players should be recognized and privileged accordingly.
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