|
Post by Gentner on May 23, 2008 22:28:59 GMT -5
I have mixed feelings on all of this. Im under 18, and truley love MilSim, and have, since the time I joined this forum, have tried countless times to have actual MilSim events hosted in Mi, like they host in Ohio and Indiana. And now all of a sudden, everyone wants an 18+ MilSim event and no one really gives a damn about the VERY small population of Minors who truley love MilSim, like myself. But you know, thats life. I accept that, but in the past year of going to Ops, I have more experience then some of the 20-30 year olds out on the field. I attended 3 major Milsim Ops (Along with 10 Ops hosted in Mi) which have been held in Ohio, ALL of which was STRICT MilSim, and had more then 200 players at each game. Blind Fury 4 was the biggest Op I have attended, and out of the 400 people who attended, I was probably one of the handful of 16 year olds who attended, and it ran smoothly. I have never had a complaint against myself in either Michigan, or Ohio, and unlike most of the kids on here, I call my hits, and if someone calls me out, I respect them, even if they didnt hit me. Thats what pisses me off the most about this whole smheel, is that even with attending the Ops in Ohio, where I have established a name for myself, (Which isnt a big one, but still) that its all gonna be ignored by an age limit. But again, I understand why, and if I cant get an exception, then oh well.
But then I also agree with the age limit as well. This seems very hypicritical, but its the only way where your gonna have a game with any type of good results. Because with the age limits, your weeding out the kids who really dont belong to play with the older crowed.
One thing I would like to see hosted here, along with the MilSim events, is to hold sort of a MilSim Mix. By this I mean, have the same aspects of a Milsim Op, but have it a little less strick then your Regular Hard Core MilSim Ops. This will give a chance for the minors to play along side the older crowed, get to show their "worthyness" and if everyone gets along with the said minor and has no problems, let this individual attend the 18+ events, with the consult and approval of the field owner and event hoster.
|
|
|
Post by bigc on May 24, 2008 11:07:14 GMT -5
I would also say it has to do with the before and after part of the game. I really don't want to have to babysit the younger players. Older players such as myself might want to enjoy a few beers, play some cards, etc. without having to worry about a bunch of 14 year olds running around us, stepping on our AEGs/gear, etc.
I like playing with a diverse crowd but it's also nice to know there will be events that cater to people my age.
PS. This area is for event planning, not fighting. If the bickering continues I will lock the thread.
|
|
|
Post by gmuch838 on May 27, 2008 13:39:48 GMT -5
I have never really been to an event, but as far as the age limit goes, I am for it. Although I am only 16 myself, I am in no rush to get on the field until I get sweet gear. Airsoft will always be there, and that is what kids have to understand. Just like driving, drinking, smoking and everything else worthwhile, we should have to wait to be a certain age. Airsoft is never going to get up and leave, so you should really just gather supplies until you are old enough, if you like it as much as you think you do, you will be glad to wait. I know that I could personally deal with waiting to kill one guy for hours, and that would be quite satisfying. But the same cannot be said for most kids under 18. The majority is just a bunch of whiny dickheads that got an Echo-1 for their birthday, and now they think that they are badass. I cannot stand to think that some douche who never worked a day in his life should show up at a combat simulation event, the very thought of it turns me off to the whole idea of airsoft itself. So that is really all I have to say, in my closing thought I say that the age limit is a sweet idea, unless you have some real trustworthy people to back you.
|
|
|
Post by Nexus on May 27, 2008 17:56:04 GMT -5
There's a 16 year old with a head on his shoulders.
+1
|
|
|
Post by BoredKender on May 27, 2008 19:26:02 GMT -5
I have said it before, and will say i again. In my opinion, if you have to be 18 to buy the replica for yourself, you should have to be 18 to use it by yourself.
|
|
|
Post by SWAT A4 on May 28, 2008 13:53:18 GMT -5
I have said it before, and will say i again. In my opinion, if you have to be 18 to buy the replica for yourself, you should have to be 18 to use it by yourself. In IL, you only have to be 13 to own it. Store policy is 18. I'm not sure about MI. Your theory is, an adult can bring a child with to play, but he has to remain by the parent?
|
|
|
Post by bloodandgore on May 28, 2008 14:42:35 GMT -5
In my opinion it is up to the event host. If you know someone who is under 18 has a good attitude and can contribute to the sport then let them play. If you don't know them then have an "interview" with them and teammates or other reliable people if that person deserves to go to the event. I am only 13 (with a year of experience) and can't wait for my first op. I do not think i could sit there for an hour and wait to kill one single person but some kids 18 and under can and they should be able to play in that event. The host needs to be fully aware of who is competing in the event and it is completely up to them who can compete in a event and who can't. If they can't tell the difference between a good sport who is mature enough or a bad one who just got a gun and think they are "all that" then they should not be hosting an event.
|
|
|
Post by Militis of Deus on May 28, 2008 15:28:27 GMT -5
Well said Gmuch838. I agree that people should have to live with waiting and prepping. You used the analogy of driving and how there is an age limit on that. I am 17, I have friends that can also drive, one in particular who is 18. She needs to put her keys down and take driver's education again. My point being is that there will always be the occasions. People will be ready before the age limits and people wont be ready once they reach that limit. That brings me to the conclusion that to play it safe, for a milsim event I believe that there should be an 18+ age limit.
Many people have mentioned allowing exceptions for those that have proved worthy. My question is how does one prove himself worthy? I don't always have the opportunity to get out with a lot of you guys here on MiA so I am curious how someone like me would be able to prove that they aren't one of those cocky run and gun minors.
|
|
|
Post by Psychosis on May 28, 2008 15:39:40 GMT -5
Percentage of 14+ games I have been to: 100% Percentage of pure milsim games I have been to: 0% Coincidence? I think not. I think the Lion Claws system is cool: a kid under 18 not only needs to be vouched for by a veteran(s), but placed directly under his/their legal guardianship for the event. www.oplionclaws.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1595
|
|
|
Post by BoredKender on May 28, 2008 17:09:59 GMT -5
Psychosis- That's along the lines i was thinking too.
|
|
|
Post by SWAT A4 on May 28, 2008 17:16:05 GMT -5
Percentage of 14+ games I have been to: 100% Percentage of pure milsim games I have been to: 0% Coincidence? I think not. That's comparing apples and oranges. I'm sorry. If your event coordinators don't choose a strict milsim event, don't blame the kids that are ages 14-17. Blame the event coordinator. If there are STRICT uniform req's, and STRICT ammo reqs, age does not matter. If they come with hicaps, and can't obtain anything else, then they can't play, regardless of age. If they come in the wrong uniforms, again, they can't play. Your event coordinators are letting everyone in. If they wear the right gear, and have the right mags, etc... then you should be 1/2 way set to a milsim event. I am going to be 19, I don't fit in that age group anyhow, But I feel they have a right to a defense. It doens't matter to me either if under 18 can't play. That would be great at times. However, I don't feel that you can BLAME that age group for you not having a "TRUE MILSIM" experience. I'm going to drop it, being that these topics don't go anywhere anyways, but I just think we should give the kids a chance. I've seen many younger players play more correct than the older guys. It works both ways. I challenge you to put on an 18+ strict milsim event. I'll be there, and appreciate it. I just still think there will be issues. Not everyone can afford to run real caps, or afford to buy the correct stuff. They are in the wrong sport then, but it's hard to turn people down at the door.
|
|
|
Post by Psychosis on May 28, 2008 18:46:24 GMT -5
Have you been to a game in Southeastern Michigan? Uniforms aren't a problem and so far ammo hasn't been a serious one either. It's the fact that kids just plain lack sense. They cheat, they lift their goggles/masks in the field and bitch when they get caught by refs, they hunker down out of range of objectives and sporadically peek out from cover to shoot, they refuse to abide by semi-auto only rules because "they bought their guns to use full-auto," and the list goes on and on.
It's not hard to buy a box of midcaps, to find standard mags used, or to find proper eye protection. More people need to be turned away at the door.
|
|
|
Post by bigc on May 28, 2008 19:40:23 GMT -5
Guys, this thread is turning into a debate and not an event planning discussion. Please keep this on topic or let's move this talk to the airsoft discussion area.
Thanks
|
|
|
Post by Canto on May 28, 2008 22:46:13 GMT -5
The problem is a lot of field reps don't want to turn people away at the door, it's a loss of revenue. I personally don't like the idea and have yet to do it; or even kick someone out for that matter (although I have come close)...
But the fact still remains in my eyes, if you are underage and mature enough to conduct yourself accordingly; feel free to send that particular events hosting party a message. 9 times out of 10 they will find your ability to ask admirable and most likely yet you in.
As for BigC's comment on "having a few beers and playing cards" I'm all for that. That's why we had the after parties back in 2007 after events. However, due to the Hole In The Wall employee who got shit faced out there (not me) and some very poor decisions from certain people on MiA (not to mention the hypocrisies and blowing things out of proportion on the boards) we cannot allow anything but 21+ for that anymore. I'm all for if you are older and you can be safe about it, having a drink or two after a game. But it's a liability we cannot accept anymore... Because I can honestly remember several people here on MiA who are under 21 who got equally as drunk and had a good time. It's sad the way things digressed...
All things considered, I think we should have several types of mil-sim events and see which work better. Beating around the bush here is good and all, but we will never know until we try.
|
|
|
Post by MayhemXXXFrosty (AndrewMp5k) on May 29, 2008 3:46:54 GMT -5
Yeah, the problem is CantoXII, as well as BigC, you simply still are playing with people under that age group. BigC lists that he'd like an 18+ Milsim event for the after part or atmosphere better; I would also say it has to do with the before and after part of the game. I really don't want to have to babysit the younger players. Older players such as myself might want to enjoy a few beers, play some cards, etc. without having to worry about a bunch of 14 year olds running around us, stepping on our AEGs/gear, etc. I like playing with a diverse crowd but it's also nice to know there will be events that cater to people my age. The problem is with that, is that even with an 18+ event, whether it be Milsim or just a Recreational style game, anyone 18-20 can't drink or the like. They can of course still hang around everybody and possibly do stuff that isn't required to be 21, like cards, but they of course can't drink. And, for the most part, I don't like hanging around adults that are getting shitfaced. Drinking is fine for them, I can do it in Canada, just not getting drunk. So 1 or 2 is fine, but I know some who go overboard. So, BigC, even with an 18+ event, those things still are not quite solved. Having a 21+ event, would be different though. Also, even with an 18+ crowd, it doesn't mean somebody might not stumble over something (accidents and the like happen, it's not an age issue). I know I keep everything I don't have on me in the car, so nobody can dip into my stuff (not that anyone has), but it's just in case (like a paintballers like we had dozens of at FutureBall way back).
|
|