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Post by racoon2014 on Apr 4, 2014 19:09:35 GMT -5
So basically, I'm trying to grasp the understanding of them, and for the life of me can't tell the difference between any of them. What are the differences and I'm under the impression that the R-Hop is the most effective, but what about the other two? Max range? Also, is there anyway to buy one of them that are pre-made? Do any of them not require modification to the barrel hop window?
Sorry for sounding dumb, but the only bad question is the one not asked. Anyway I was curious because my brother and I are doing M4 Builds, his for DMR (he is disabled, so he wanted a DMR he can shoot from further away and doesn't have to move around for shots) and I just want something for longer range capability, even 50ft further. Thanks!
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Post by TheEnd on Apr 5, 2014 0:05:24 GMT -5
Not super in depth, Flat hop is a modification of the existing bucking. You flip it inside out, shave off the ridge, and sand down the hop mount. Flip it back out and install it 90 degrees from correct on the barrel so that a clean patch of rubber is exposed in the hop window. The ridge in the barrel must be filled. In the end it is essentially a bucking without a hop mound. You then install a flat hop nub like this. It gives you a longer and flatter patch than a standard bucking and nub. A true R hop is made of a rubber material (I can't recall the type at the moment). It requires a carefully trimmed piece of rubber tubing to be installed in the hop up window. Once the piece is cut it must be lightly glued into the barrel window. A bucking with the mound shaved off is then installed over it. It is typically installed with an "M" nub which is essentially the same as the flat hop nub but it is solid and made from a different material. This does not require modifications to the barrel. An IR hop (Ice R Hop) is the same as an R hop except instead of rubber tubing it uses silicone tubing. The silicone tubing gives better performance in the cold as it does not harden up like the rubber will. This does not require modifications to the barrel. There is also the ER-hop and IER-hop which are "E"xtended R hops. These require the barrel window to be cut longer. In real world terms the R hop is more effective than the flat hop, but it comes with a set of challenges. However the R hop has a big edge in two very important areas. First and most importantly it separates the friction surface from the air seal component. Because the contact surface is soft it provides good friction and a hard bucking can be used to provide a better air seal. Best of both worlds. Secondly I have noticed my R hopped rifles are able to lift much heavier ammo than my flat hopped rifles for a given power output. Realistically it is impossible to give you a max range estimate. There are way to many variables. It is safe to say the ER/IER-hop will give you the most, followed by the IR, R, and flat. That list also has them in level of difficulty to install. The R hop can be a pain in the ass sometimes. I ordered the tubing from McMaster-Carr and it requires a jig and a new razor blade to get a good result. You can buy the R hop patches at an extremely inflated price (although they are nicely cut for you) from HS5 himself here. A foot of the tubing from McMaster will run you about $4 but you have to cut it. You should be able to use Google to learn the real intricate stuff from here. |
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Post by Ogre on Apr 5, 2014 9:22:03 GMT -5
Not super in depth, Flat hop is a modification of the existing bucking. You flip it inside out, shave off the ridge, and sand down the hop mount. Flip it back out and install it 90 degrees from correct on the barrel so that a clean patch of rubber is exposed in the hop window. The ridge in the barrel must be filled. In the end it is essentially a bucking without a hop mound. You then install a flat hop nub like this. If you are still cutting the bucking you are doing it wrong. You are much better off ordering a Flat Hop bucking and Nub package. Not only will it be more durable than a normal bucking modified, it will be more constant since it takes all the guess work on "did I file it down enough". Racoon, I got the chance to shoot both a gun with a Modify flat hop nub and bucking, with a gun with a modify flat hop bucking ans R-Hop installed. Honestly the boost in range between them is negligible, honestly about 5 or 10 feet, booth boost your range upwards of 40-50 feet. If you were at around 160ft before, I nice tight bore and flat hop will get you out to 210ft effective range with about 230ft max. The R-Hoped gun was getting about 220ft effective and 255ft max. Both base guns were Echo1 M16's with the hop up unit stock. Both were running KWA .30s If you don't feel like having to do all the guess work involved with R-Hop, flat hop is a good alternative. I am a big proponent of Flat hop and personally believe it is superior to R-Hop due to it's ease of instal. However as The End said, it still has it's disadvantages. While R-Hop Requires youto run .30's or heavier, flat hop you can still get by with .25s, which won't yield the same range and groupings as the heavier bb's. Also, R-hop gives you a better compression boost in FPS, Flat hop does it but not to the extent achieved by R-Hop. |
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Post by TheEnd on Apr 5, 2014 11:13:55 GMT -5
If you are still cutting the bucking you are doing it wrong. You are much better off ordering a Flat Hop bucking and Nub package. Not only will it be more durable than a normal bucking modified, it will be more constant since it takes all the guess work on "did I file it down enough". I'm not doing it wrong. I'm using all available resources to obtain the best result. While the modify bucking may already have the flat hop profile, it is not the optimal contact material or optimal thickness for every AEG and bb. Ideally you should try out a variety of buckings before settling on one to use. Compare a Systema soft to a Madbull Shark Red to a Prometheus purple. Three very different materials and profiles. While the modify bucking will be easier to install it will not be more durable or more consistent just because it is molded without the mound. Once a standard bucking is modified the contact patch is essentially the same. Sanding the mound off isn't really that difficult and since it is not part of the contact patch it just needs to fit between the barrel and the chamber. Same goes for the ridge. A new razor blade with a steady hand and you should be able to drop the ridge right back into the barrels channel. |
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Post by racoon2014 on Apr 5, 2014 15:43:04 GMT -5
So for a flat hop I just shave off the patch that contacts the BB to a flat surface?
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Post by Stinger on Apr 7, 2014 7:50:39 GMT -5
So for a flat hop I just shave off the patch that contacts the BB to a flat surface? No, you shave that down (as well as the ridge which aligns the bucking with the inner barrel) and then rotate the bucking so that a completely smooth contact patch is visible through the hop-up window. You don't want the part of the bucking where you took the bump off to be the contact patch, because it will be rough. You also need a flat-hop nub. Also: Before you do any modifications, try out unmodified combinations of hop-up parts. This will give you a good baseline measurement of what your gun is capable of for when you start doing mods. It will also mean that you have a lot of parts to use when modding later on.  |
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Post by slippy on Apr 11, 2014 10:15:44 GMT -5
I've used both. However with a P* there is a small difference in how it performs. In my set-up a flat hop was ok (super easy to do on a ORGA as there are already different slots milled in the barrel so zero bucking modification is required). But as far as performance goes the IR-Hop was notably better. I've seen people posting that you CAN'T use anything lighter than a .30 with an R-Hop. In my experience this is false, it's just really easy to over hop lighter bb's using it. Using heavier rounds is ideal because you can very effectively hop heavier rounds. Basically, both are good. The R-Hop is better IMO. If you're worried about ease of installation I would recommend using a z kit such as this www.ampedairsoft.com/product_p/hsa-z-kit.htm and getting an installation aid such as this www.ampedairsoft.com/product_p/hsa-install-aid.htm. The installation itself took me 20 min on the barrel, 15 to modify my hop up arm for an M-nub and about an hour to get the outer sanding perfect. Really it was quite painless. I hope this can help ya out. |
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