Scopes?

[Coldwave]

Well I've been thinking about this for awhile and its about time to strap my n00b boots on and ask. Are there replica scopes that offer a zoom function but also a function to dial in the crosshairs to your bb's? I use to just remember where the rounds traveled and aim according to that but like I said I've been thinking about this for a little while.

[Fission]

Yes, any optic should offer windage and elevation adjustments even the replicas and wal-mart cheapy sights. You can get any 3-9x40 type of scope that will offer these features. When looking at scopes the first number is always the magnification level the 2nd number is the size of the objective. So a 3-9x40 offers a 3x-9x magnification (adjustable) and a 40mm objective lens (front). The larger objective generally the more light the sight will collect and a brighter picture it will produce. I typically like 50mm objectives for hunting rifles but that is because I'm shooting at dawn and dusk (low-light). The more light I can get in the glass the better, you'd be surprised how well deer blend in woods. But that's another topic for another forum.

Remember when making elevation and windage adjustments you are moving the picture not the reticle. A lot of people get confused with this when first working with gun sights and think right and up refer to the reticle. If you want to move your reticle up and right, turn the dials the direction for left and down. Once you are used to opposite world zeroing a rifle is a quick and easy process.

[Knief]

I always thought it was weird that you move your point of impact to your reticle, and not your reticle to your point of impact. Do you or anybody else know why scopes are set up this way other than tradition and standardization?

[Coldwave]

I'm not following you Knief, sounds like the same thing to me....

[Fission]

I actually never heard the logic behind making them work that way specifically. I think its an actual design restriction though, it makes sense for the picture to change and not the reticle because the adjustment kobs are physically controlling/adjusting the glass/tube. The reticle is fixed, where the reticle is built into the scope it does not allow for adjustment. that way it doesn't move off center of the image, and can be used as a reliable reference point. Your POI can be anywhere in the field of view, but you would not want your crosshairs to end up just anywhere in the field of view, since that is your point of reference or zero.

This is for consistency, you have your "control" (the reticle) and you adjust your variables (POI/Image) to match the consistent 'zero'. This way you only have to control one thing rather than two. This wasn't the most eloquent post and this would all probably be better explained with pictures, but I'm still at work. I can do a much better "official" write up of "how scopes work" sometime if you want to have it available though.

[Knief]

I definitely see what you're saying and it sounds reasonable to me. It would have taken some extra and likely costly engineering on earlier scopes to reverse gear the adjustment knobs to make it more intuitive. It was probably seen as not worth the extra effort and cost.

Coldwave,

We're talking about what exactly you're moving when you adjust windage and elevation. When you adjust your scope "right", you're not moving your crosshairs further to the right to line up with your point of impact (which would seem more intuitive), you're moving your point of impact right to match up with your crosshairs. So for instance, let's say you put your crosshairs on your bullseye and your bb/bullet hits 6 inches to the left, in the 9 o'clock position. Intuitively, you would want to turn your windage knob "left" to try to match it with your POI. This would result in a shot that hits further to the left. Instead, you want to adjust "right" to move your POI in line with your crosshairs.

What makes this design less intuitive, I think, is that you're treating the gun as movable and the scope as static. It seems more natural to treat the gun as static and scope as movable, but that's not really what's going on (eh, sort of).

[bobbunny]

For some strange reason, this reminds me of Star Trek

But if you follow the logic, it kinda makes sense. It's a cheaper way to sight in a scope, without much difference than to moving the reticle itself. Hell, I used to think you moved the reticle.

[Coldwave]

Ah that makes a lot more sense. I'm following now, so you could think of everything on a scope (adjustment wise) backwards?

[Knief]

You could, but then you wouldn't have a very deep understanding of what you're doing. You'd just think "right means left, up means down...stupid scope." It's more important to understand that you're moving your POI rather than your reticle. It'll save you some confusion and time when you're sighting in.

[Fission]

Yep, you're exactly right there Knief, I agree it's a weird counter-intuitive thing but once you know it..it's quick enough to zero.

[Coldwave]

Yeah I know what your getting at knief, I was just saying.

[X]

Apr 6, 2012 12:52:00 GMT -5 Fission said:

I actually never heard the logic behind making them work that way specifically. I think its an actual design restriction though, it makes sense for the picture to change and not the reticle because the adjustment kobs are physically controlling/adjusting the glass/tube. The reticle is fixed, where the reticle is built into the scope it does not allow for adjustment. that way it doesn't move off center of the image, and can be used as a reliable reference point. Your POI can be anywhere in the field of view, but you would not want your crosshairs to end up just anywhere in the field of view, since that is your point of reference or zero.

How expensive is it to reverse the labels? Am I missing something here? It's like telling a dyslexic kid to make a right from the center lane. End result is the same.

My guess is that because people are right handed the scope adjustment knobs are on the right. Because of the way they screw into the scope adjusting it to the left, that's the way it's always been. I suppose if you had the knobs on the left side it would work the opposite way.

Just thinking aloud here.

[Coldwave]

X, you have a point.