STABO vs. ALICE vs. MOLLE

[solidsnake]

I am curios as to what you really prefer. I know many of you are crazy for MOLLE equipment and there is nothing wrong with that, it is very versatile but in my opinion overly bulky. I am a bigger fan of STABO or the cheaper alternative ALICE but in your own opinion what are the pros and cons of them?

and a quick lesson to anyone who may not know STABO or ALICE

STABO

Developed at the MACV Recondo School in Vietnam, the STABO Harness was designed to enable the rapid extraction of reconnaissance personnel by helicopter. Named after its inventors, Maj. Robert L. Stevens, Cpt. John. D. H. Knabb and SFC. Clifford L. Roberts, the harness was made from type-13 nylon and formed an X across the back. In order to be extracted the soldier simply snapped the helicopter’s extraction line bridle to the two shoulder mounted D rings. This was a significant improvement on the McGuire Rig, which was essentially a 100-foot mountain rope anchored to the helicopter with a loop at the end for the individual to sit in. Unlike the STABO, riding the McGuire Rig required strength and agility and it was consequently of little use in extracting the wounded.

Equipped with a standard pistol belt, the harness was also designed in part to replace the M1956 / M1967 Load Carrying Suspenders. The STABOs leg straps were folded up and secured by tape or rubber bands against the shoulder straps until needed.

www.specialforces.com/climbing-rappelling/tactical-harnesses-gear/stabo-tactical-full-body-harness

ALICE

I really dont feel like explaining to much detail into this one offhand, it is the pre-cursor to the STABO harness so it is very similar however you can (and though this is completely impractical to airsoft) attack a ruck fram and turn it into a backpack

www.uscav.com/productinfo.aspx?productid=7539&tabid=548&catid=1751


MOLLE

"MOLLE (pronounced MOLLY as in the female name) is an acronym for MOdular Lightweight Load-carrying Equipment. It is used to define the current generation of load-bearing equipment and rucksacks utilized by the United States armed forces, especially the United States Army, and its use is also growing in the British Army in the form of the Osprey Modular systems. The system's modularity is derived from the use of PALS webbing, rows of heavy-duty nylon stitched onto the vest as to allow for attachment of various MOLLE-compatible pouches and accessories. This method of attachment has become a de facto standard for modular tactical gear, replacing the click and stick system used in the earliest modular vest systems (which is still in use with most Western police departments). It is produced for the United States Government under contract by several contractors, such as Specialty Defense, Armor Holdings, Ehmke Manufacturing/High Ground Gear, as well as Eagle Industries."

www.511tactical.com/All-Products/Outerwear/Vests/VTAC-LBE-Tactical-Vest.html?gclid=CNy9uMCcm6kCFcJ05QodBxMPuw

[Knife]

While I have no experience with the early STABO harnesses and the derivates of them, I prefer MOLLE to both STABO and ALICE. A MOLLE set up can be just as low profile as a ALICE set up if you have a MOLLE rig similar to an ALICE belt/harness. To me, MOLLE is pretty much inherently better, it allows for better designs and pouch placement. That said, I also just prefer how MOLLE set ups. I'm not a big fan of most ALICE set ups, outside of some of the mid 90s LBT gear.

[solidsnake]

I think my big attraction to STABO and ALICE is really just how small they look. Whenever I see a MOLLE load out it is full blown over the top but what the player needs I however never really need much and the low profile and comfort of those systems as opposed to a MOLLE vest is what attracts me.

However the way you worded it... do they have a MOLLE harness similar to that of a ALICE? I just dont like the big ol vest when I am crawling on the ground.

[Fugazi]

Jun 3, 2011 21:53:02 GMT -5 Knife said:

While I have no experience with the early STABO harnesses and the derivates of them, I prefer MOLLE to both STABO and ALICE. A MOLLE set up can be just as low profile as a ALICE set up if you have a MOLLE rig similar to an ALICE belt/harness.

RRV with the bib folded down is a good example.

Not to mention it's way more comfortable. ALICE gear worked when it was used, and got the job done, but some things are just outdated. Horses worked fine for centuries, but you don't see any shortage of cars. Just like anything else though, MOLLE will eventually be outdated also. If it hasn't been already. I really like the AWS Velcro... Whatever Troub has. Way faster and easier than attaching MOLLE.

[Andrew]

A Molle battle belt and H harness, or a Molle chest rig is just as small and low profile as anything you have mention.

[snafu]

There are many "battle belt" type molle setups but they still limit the amount of webbing you have.

This.
shop.vtarmynavy.com/battle-belt-h-harness-p7380.aspx
With this.
shop.vtarmynavy.com/condor-battle-belt-p5848.aspx

A TT MAV could also be something you may like. This one below is a great price for everything you get.
cgi.ebay.com/New-TACTICAL-TAILOR-Modular-Assault-Vest-MAV-COMPLETE-/140547703949?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20b94bc48d

Most MAV users I have talked to say they are best with the x harness.
cgi.ebay.com/Tactical-Tailor-MOLLE-MAV-X-Harness-Straps-any-color-/230570751494?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35af167606

Even If you were to buy a 1 piece TT MAV and x harness individually you wouldn't spend much more than 100 bucks without pouches.

[Knief]

Aside from the ones that snafu linked to, you can also find chest rigs like these:

www.skdtac.com/Eagle_M4_Chest_Rig_LE_3_Mag_p/eag.563.htm
www.skdtac.com/Eagle_Chest_Rig_SKD_All_Molle_Version_p/eag.569.htm

There are a number of other similar models made by different companies, all very low profile.

In a different direction, a few companies like Blackhawk make an older style tactical vest that uses MOLLE to attach pouches:

www.blackhawk.com/product/STRIKE-Elite-Vest,753,87.htm

Or the super light FLC, meant to be worn over other armor:

store.colemans.com/cart/us-gi-molle-ii-fighting-load-carrier-flc-vest-p-2504.html?currency=USD

They're also a lot lower profile than the plate carriers you're thinking of.

Here's my take on it. Any system can be as trimmed down as you want it to be, assuming you're holding a minimum amount of gear. But MOLLE is far more versatile than the others simply because it's what is currently used and more companies make a wider variety of pouches and rigs to carry those pouches. So, if I want to hold 6 M16 mags, both an ALICE system and a MOLLE system will allow me to do it. But with ALICE, I'm limited to tracking down gear that was produced before the turn of the millennium. From what I've seen, the most readily available stuff is pretty much just surplus LC-2/Gulf War era pouches like these:

www.uscav.com/Productinfo.aspx?productid=7560&tabid=548

But for MOLLE, there are dozens of different designs for different styles--open top, closed top, single mag, double mag, triple mag, single pouches, double pouches, triple pouches, some with MOLLE on the front, some with pistol mag pouches on the front, and I'm sure another half a dozen options I'm forgetting. All of them are readily available from hundreds of retailers, both airsoft and real steel.

So to carry those 6 M16 mags with ALICE pouches, I'm stuck with two of the pouches I linked to above, and either strapping them to a web belt and suspenders. If I'm using a MOLLE based rig, I can use two separate triple mag pouches and put them on a belt just as I could with and ALICE rig. But I could also get three two-mag pouches and put them across the front of a chest rig. Or I could put them on a drop leg panel. Or I could put them and a metric fuck ton of other stuff on a CIRAS. Or I could put them and half a metric fuck ton of other stuff on a RRV or MBSS.

I understand not liking the bulky plate carriers that a lot of us rock, but that has little to do with them being MOLLE based rigs. Disliking MOLLE because you don't like bulky plate carriers is like disliking automobiles because you don't like gas guzzling SUVs. There are so many other types of vehicles (sedans, compacts, sub-compacts, cross-overs, motorcycles, scooters, etc.) that aren't big bulk gas hogs that don't fit in the drive-thru. Assuming you're the type of person to need transportation (or who needs to carry gear in airsoft), there's pretty much a car out there for you somewhere (and in our analogy, a MOLLE based rig out there for you somewhere). You've just got to figure out what you want it to do.

[solidsnake]

I cant find anything more low profile than the condor battle belt, even that looks to bulky for me but you guys have changed my view on MOLLE just because of convienence. Is there anything even more lower profile that is almost the size of an ALICE setup? if not I mean beggers cant be choosers and I will make do but I am glad to have been given some pretty good details on this stuff.

[Knife]

shop.ehobbyasia.com/flyye-right-angle-belt.html

[Knief]

Also,

bdu.com/blackhawk-padded-patrol-belt

www.shoptics.com/t1-tb-fefdde.html

www.tacticaltailor.com/modularpaddedbelt.aspx

Then pair any of those with something like these:

www.opticsplanet.net/eagle-industries-quot-y-quot-suspenders-for-pmb-molle-belt.html

And you're good to go.

You won't even notice that 1/4 inch thickness that the padding adds compared to an ALICE belt, except that it'll be far more comfortable to wear for an entire day.

[solidsnake]

Its not how thick it is that I dont like it is the height of the unit, but looking at all MOLLE gear, you need two rows of loops dont you? There isnt a MOLLE belt with just one row? I mean I can make do using what ALICE gear I have or maybe "Jerry Riggin" MOLLE to ALICE but you know, putting two things that work right together is always more efficent. I do have a MOLLE set up as well but it is a vest wich I never liked minus my camelback on it, well if nothing like that exsist I wont complain since you guys have helped me out quite a bit and hopefully anyone else who reads through this

[Knief]

One row of MOLLE wouldn't really work. I mean, stuff would stay on, but it would flop like crazy. You'd essentially be attaching your pouches at a single point, which would make more of a hinge than anything. You need two rows of MOLLE to really secure anything even moderately sized, like mag pouches. But much like the thickness, you won't really notice the height. With the extra padding, these belts won't feel super rigid. They're likely about an inch to an inch and a half taller than an ALICE belt. That's barely enough to notice if you're looking for it. When you're running around in-game, getting shot at and worrying about accomplishing objectives, you'll never even notice the difference.

[solidsnake]

Well it doesnt hurt to try I guess, I am gonna have some spare cash for more gear here in the next week so why not give it a go. If it works for me awsome, if not then I have gear for a team mate to use haha