Can't Decide on a Pistol. Please Help

[alexbuechel]

hello everyone.

First off i should introduce myself. My name is Alex and I'm new to the sport. I recently went out with some friends and had a great time playing. I did however find my self very out of place and quickly out gunned. So I've been taking time to read ratings, and tried to pick up as much information as I can about different items.

This thread focuses on a few different pistols I have my eye on, but wanted to get some input and hopefully get some questions answered. I am looking for a green gas (I was told it was better, and that it would work better in cold weather)

First of I want to let everyone know that I am trying to buy on a budget although it appears as though I'll be in for around $90 - $120 for a decent pistol. (Please correct me if I'm wrong)

KJW Full Metal M9 Tac-Master Air soft Gun - $110 This gun has an average user rating on air soft GI of 5 stars. But after reading some of the comments i had a few questions. Some of the reviews say that the hop up is difficult to adjust. That its loud, and spare mags can be pricey.

KJW Full Metal M9 Military Air soft Gun This gun is only $5 less expensive, yet the reviews are lower. with a 4 out of 5 it's still rated high. I'm not exactly sure what the differences are other than grip handle. The cons here that keep showing up are, the mags keep braking, trigger spring, mag wobble. But the biggest down side is that id doesn't have a bottom rail.

WE Full Metal 1911 4.3 Desert Warrior Air soft Gun Now this is a great looking pistol. The ratings are high, but has a few cons as well. It has a low cap mag, 15. and higher cap mags wont fit. But it will accept green gas, red gas and propane which is great. The price is $103.5


I'm not set on any of these but they appear to be some of the better guns in the market. Well at least on air soft GI. I'm really inclined toward a USP or would even consider other guns if i knew that the quality would be great.

I like the idea of GBB but I'm not set on it. My friend has a CYMA Colt and it's a great pistol. Shoots around 250 rounds on a full charge, but I've heard they are discontinued.

Any suggestions, gun recommendations, or tips would be great. Thanks guys.

[triggs]

If you're just starting out, get a AEG, GBB's and pistols in general are used as a secondary, not as a primary. You can get starter G&G Combat Machine for $140 which isn't that far out of the budget and much more reliable.
www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.php?cPath=139_24_237&products_id=4587
www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.php?cPath=139_24_237&products_id=6554
www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.php?cPath=139_24_237&products_id=7285
www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.php?cPath=139_24_237&products_id=7900
As you can see there are a number of choices. Internally they are all nearly identical and all extremely reliable.

With that said, onto GBB's.
First of all there are 3 types of gas based propellents.
HFC134a: Also known as duster gas, is a low velocity propellant used in Japanese GBB's such as Western Arms, Tokyo Marui, Maruzen, etc. due to their ABS plastic slides. You also need to add silicone oil before filling a mag to avoid drying out the seals.
Greengas: Is basically propane (same stuff used to power gas grills and such) mixed with silicone oil and a nicer odor.
Propane: Is a common propellent found in most stores. Companies sell adapters that allow you to use propane tanks on airsoft guns. Add a couple drops of 100% silicone oil every 8-10 mags and it will keep the rubber seals found in a GBB from drying out.
CO2: A common propellant found in most stores as well, most notably the Crossman 12g boxes. A number of manufactures make CO2 pistols, however, they shoot unsafe velocities and are not suited for any game.
Redgas: Not commonly seen anymore since US Import laws changed a few years back. Redgas is much higher pressure than green gas and can boost FPS. However, unless the replica gun is extremely high quality it will destroy the internals or break the slide.

Isn't propane flamable? Sure, but airsoft guns do not ignite the propellants. Instead they use the expanding pressure to operate the gun. As long as you aren't smoking, flipping a lighter, playing with matches, etc. around a greengas or propane tank or gun you're fine. None of the three gasses listed above is suited for cold weather. At some point gas reaches a point where it cannot expand quickly enough. For greengas this around 40F. Most pistols will start to malfunction at around 50F, I've only seen the KWA pistols perform well in anything colder than 50F

KJW Tac Master - KJW makes decent quality pistols, the tac master isn't anything special, nor is it hard to operate. ANY GBB is loud, they are Gas Blow Back's you have a full slide moving and banging around, there's no way around this. Any GBB will have "pricey" mags. Most are in the $20-$30 range.

KJW M9 Military - Is basically the same pistol as the Tac Master. The only thing worth noting is that EVERY M9 model out there, including the real Beretta M92FS breaks trigger springs, it's a design flaw.

WE 1911 DW - Just flat out no. WE makes sub par, low quality replicas. The metal is cheap, the rubber seals are even cheaper. The internals break frequently, and the rubber seals dry out very easily. If you don't know how to maintain a GBB, are uncomfortable working on one, or want something reliable, WE, ANY WE is the last place to start.

As stated, if you have a budget of even close to $140, get a AEG, you'll be much happier in the long run. GBB's are finicky, take a lot of experience and maintenance and work to continue using them.

Also: Be sure to read the rules here, mods don't nicely to improper grammar and punctuation.

[alexbuechel]

Wow, thank you. That was very helpful.

I apologize for grammar and punctuation. English is my second language so its hard for me to really know when I'm making mistakes in that way.

I think this might be a continuing problem with my posts, but hope to get better. I speak it well enough to fit in, but my accent gives me away and most of the time my grammar.

I definitely would rather have a battery operated gun, but was having a hard time finding any that didn't appear cheap when it comes to pistols.

For my rifle i was actually leaning towards the Echo 1 scar, Mk16 i think it is. The price is around $230 and has great reviews. Other than the stock breaking, and a few rubber pieces falling of, it's has a great running rating.

Mostly I'm looking for a side arm, as my friends like to do indoor zombie nights in a CQB facility. We only allow shot guns and pistols for those and found that the shot guns run out of ammo quite fast. So I'm trying to cover myself by having a good back up plan.


Thanks again

Alex

[triggs]

I actually rarely point out grammar and such, the post is almost perfectly written English so it's rather odd when the few errors show up.

The Echo 1 Mk16 SCAR-L is a rebranded DBOY. They are good quality, and beyond the stock plate snapping as you know, they're solid replicas.

Ah so you are stuck with pistols/shotguns. As long as you don't play in the cold a GBB will work, the KJW is probably the best option in your price range. Personally I prefer KWA/KSC GBB's but they are a tad higher priced (about $160 for their PTP line).

If you want reliable and efficient, KWA and KSC compare to no other mass market GBB out there. They're a tad more expensive however, and for indoor, you won't notice a performance increase compared to a KJW.

And if you want loud, KWA M9 PTP's are LOUD, my teammates hate me when I use mine near their head, it's one of the most deafening GBB's I've ever owned. The mags though are great, I have yet to have to repair one for major leaks.

[alexbuechel]

I can understand that. If the difference is an extra $30 for a way more solid product. Then I should suck it up and get it. In the end i was hoping to get a cheap pistol as the odds of using it are rare. As you mentioned, its a fall back and rarely would use for it. But there is not sense in buying crap.

Loud is not a feature that would sway me in either way. I like realism, so I would think it a positive thing. The extra money would have been great for a few extra mags, but in the end quality over quantity is the rule.

I am a bit let down by the stock on the scar being an issue. Like i said before I'm leaning towards it like any noob that loves trends. But in all honesty i hear mixed reviews about echo 1. I wonder if you would recommend a gun around that price range that would have that versatility of being an outdoor and indoor cqb gun. I like that it has a fore grip and that i can add things to it, as it comes with ready rails.

I was trying to not to go straight for the M4 as esthetically I'm not a big fan. I do like the tan and with some minor customizations I'm sure i would love it. But i want to have a finished ready product with my price range around $230.

I also looked at a masada, but instantly heard bad things.

Alex

[triggs]

Like I said, as far as CQB goes the KJW is a fine pistol, I used to have one and the it was a solid replica. I swapped to a KWA some time ago, and I prefer it for the realism (harder recoil).

KWA M9's aren't without issues, the mag baseplates are a known fault point and commonly break off. It's more of an aesthetic thing than a functional issue, but is annoying when the mags are about $30+. My KJW mags though were always wearing out rubber o-rings though so there was some trade off.

The SCAR-L stock isn't as big of a issue. The problem comes from the design of the latch, which if slammed hard enough or many times it will crack. As long as you just push the stock, and not slam it around, it's less likely to crack.
I do like that Echo1 rebranded the DBOY as it means it's easier to get parts like the stock plate. It's not a huge cost either at something like $10 if I remember right.

The A&K MASADA isn't a horrible replica, it has a very small battery compartment however, and virtually requires a LIPO battery. A 7.4v 15C is plenty for it.

M4's are rather plentiful, but this also means there's a lot of external add-ons and modifications, so you can make them look like just about anything you want. $230 will get a lot of different brand M4's and you can do a lot to them.

[Koko]

Having owned a KJW TacMaster I can safely tell you that it's an awesome pistol. Mine never gave me trouble and could put up with the beatings that I put it through on a game to game basis. They shoot pretty far for a pistol and are typically very accurate out to about 20-30 yards. They're also comfortable to hold and operate. That would be my suggestion.

While true, an AEG would be better primary to start with it doesn't sound like you're hoping to start coming to huge events where a longer range gun is necessary. I know my first season all I had was a G23f and I had just as much fun as everyone else on the field (and was doing just as well). You are listed as living on the east side of the state which means it would be easy(er) for you to make it out to Taylor and No Limits Action Park where we host rec games. For any rec game (or backyard in a completely safe area) a pistol is a completely adequate weapon.

And triggs, Red Gas was designed for use in the winter (to still give gas guns some "pop"). Basically though, you don't ever want to use it.

[arguablycrassic]

Just to chime in here, it's pretty hard to go wrong with a KJW pistol, but they usually reflect that in their price. As for the WE, I would advise against it. Not because it's a WE (I have a 3.8 baby high capa that I got for 85 brand new, and have taken the thing through hell and back, without any problems besides losing my front sight.) but because the 4.3 has restrictive mag capabilities. The 3.8 can take 3.8 mags, 4.3 mags, as well as 5.1 mags. I run mine on the original 3.8 mag, as well as 2 5.1 mags, essentially turning them into extended mags. I've had mine for about half a year as of now, and only run it on propane. I have had absolutely had no problems with feeding or screwed up internals.

TL;DR: If you can afford it, go with the more established brands. KJW isn't going to disappoint. If you go with a WE, save money and go to pyramydair and get the 3.8 for only 85 dollars.

[Ghast]

Holy shit, Alex! I know you, we were in a few classes back at MCC. What up dude? I'll hit you up on FB so you can put a name to a face.

On topic, I have an M9 PTP and I can only sing praises, it's loud as shit and plenty accurate. I would estimate about a 50 yard accurate range.

Another pistol that I don't think has been mentioned is the KJW P226 (railed if you like). It's an amazingly solid shooter and is very very reliable.

[triggs]

Apr 6, 2011 10:48:29 GMT -5 Koko said:

And triggs, Red Gas was designed for use in the winter (to still give gas guns some "pop"). Basically though, you don't ever want to use it.

Noted. I keep it outta my pistols either way. I have a feeling the KWA M9 could handle it, but I'm not going to bother trying. Besides, the stuff is hard to come by these days.

[alexbuechel]

Oh cool ! Ghast. I'll have to check my Face book to definitely get a face. What classes did we take?

On topic. A friend of mine has a SIG Sauer P226, I cant tell who the manufacturer is. But its all metal, as far as I can tell. Shoots well, I checked it at around 235fps. 25 Cap mag, green gas. I found a few reviews on it and it was rated pretty good. Usually 4-5 our of 5 over 26 reviews.

His asking price is $80 including mag. He also mentioned that only about 100 rounds have been shot through it. I am considering his offer.

I saw the same gun, i think, for around $130 new online. Wondering if anyone know anything about it.

This is not my video, but its the same gun/box www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNGxYooGZZk

Alex

[shimko]

Alex, you are the man!

[Carnage]

I would suggest anything made by KWA. A little pricey I know, but they really are "Engineered to Outperform". I currently have a KWA M9 PTP (NS2), same thing as triggs and Ghast, and it's awesome. I have had no problems with it at all so far.

Furthermore, I'm buying a KWA KM4 SR7 tomorrow and have heard great reviews. Only problem with KWA's M4/M16 line is that the mag wells are picky (only certain mags work).

But from your previous post I understand you're looking for a SCAR (MK16)? If so, G&G (almost as good as KWA in my opinion) makes a SCAR licensed by FN Herstal (original RS company), has great externals and internals, uses M4/M16 mags, and has a functioning bolt catch and charging handle for realism. Only problem is that it's $385 on Airsoft GI but it's worth saving up for it for a realistic looking gun that's licensed by FN Herstal.

[Knief]

Shimko, I'm giving you a warning for necroposting, but also for making a completely pointless post at all. Before you hit that reply button, ask yourself if what you have to say improves the quality of information in the thread. If it doesn't, then you're better off just not posting.

And Carnage, make sure you check the dates on all the posts in a thread, so you don't join in on the necroposting.

[shimko]

L.O.L.! You got me!

I was posting that Alex is the man for finally joining the message boards.

L.O.L.!