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Post by Gunny87 on Mar 22, 2010 13:03:34 GMT -5
I know there's usually a debate between Saturday and Sunday games. I know TFI, and many other event hosts that have held games on Sunday usually do so for the justification that out of the whole weekend this typically is the day that most people have off of work and are the least busy with their lives. Which works perfectly for me personally seeing Sunday is the only day of the whole week that I don't work so I'm always for Sunday games because I have to request Saturdays off of work and don't always get to.
But I definitely sympathize with those that had to leave early because they may have lived across the state and had a lengthy drive back home. And with the work & school week starting up it makes Sunday games a little more difficult.
I guess my answer to that is whatever is more convenient for the event hosts.
I too wish there was more refs that could have been in the middle of the field, which also was why I volunteered to be Batavian CO to assist TFI so that they could free up their staff, or at least Chaos... I have nothing else to say but with their role players there's only so much they can do. And yeah not much that can be done with the paintball refs that aren't experienced in airsoft play. The only thing I can see is if TFI could get members on here or something to help with the reffing.
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Post by Task Force: Iris on Mar 22, 2010 13:09:33 GMT -5
As far as the Sunday game goes I have nothing else to say. We want to host Saturday games. This year however the only day we could get was Sunday the 21st. This is due to a member of our team getting married =D (we need to be there for him) and HS hosting a paintball game Saturday the 20th. I am meeting with HS to begin setting up Durbond III and possibly another MILSIM within the next 3-4 weeks. So stay tuned for more info!
Cheers,
TFI
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Post by Relarz on Mar 22, 2010 13:56:29 GMT -5
I would like to see two things in the future: 1) Embedded refs roaming with the squads to provide on the spot rulings and enforcement of safety rules. Its a noble notion, but you would need a LOT of ref's to go with ALL the squads, recon and sniper elements included, that way we don't have any more fire-absorbing BB-resistant super-soldier incidents. 2) A consistent set of safety rules that does not change during the day to suit egos. Calling a sniper or bang kill was explicitly mentioned during the briefing, neither were to be refused. Why did we change that later? Saftey is still the most important aspect right? You can't simply disregard safety and drill people at point blank with a high powered gun because they don't want to accept a bang kill. What if the next time it's a little kid, or anyone else for that matter, and you shoot them and hit them in the face? Sitting at 30-40 feet and just going "Sniper kill" at a squad isn't really a dead-to-rights situation there, Lee Harvey Oswald. You could have said that, taken one guy, and the other 7 machine guns around my downed squad member would rip you to pieces. So next time, instead of wasting your pre-deployment outside our spawn, wait for us to walk past and back into[/i] your engagement range. Had YOU not tried to pad YOUR ego without shooting, you could have EASILY single handedly wiped out my ENTIRE squad, which I'd be pretty proud of if I were in your shoes. If you want to play that way, go back to holding sticks and 2x4's like guns and running around saying "PEW PEW I GOT YEW!" TFI did put forth a great effort with team balancing and setup. At times I found it to be uneven due to no-shows and people leaving early. Still, I have to say that TFI did make damn good effort and they couldn't possibly predict how many people would call off at the last minute or simply not show at all. 100% agree. Anyone who didn't show REALLY missed an excellent day, and TFI made the most of what showed up, and then some. I heard gripes from many folks on both teams about folks not calling hits. I saw a bunch of folks not calling hits when handfulls of bbs were bouncing off of them (this was my team not calling hits), worse yet, I saw a bunch of folks getting angry over it and blowing up into a rage and in one case even threatening someone in my presence (hence the need for embedded refs) Once more, I would have liked to see safety rules enforced instead of amended to suit egos. Take the sniper-kill, it's to prevent injury! Why not have it called a "safety kill" and make it so it can not be refused by anyone when you get too close. I don't want to hear the excuse of"its milsim" or "we come to shoot not to bang-kill"! I came to shoot too, but I don't want to see someone digging a bb out of their skin later. If we are going to be told to "shoot them next time", why have engagement limits at all if other safety rules are going to be ignored? its not very "milsim realistic" to require someone to go to their sidearm to achieve a kill easily acheived with a rifle because someone wants to modify and exploit the rules by closing distance and getting inside the snipers minimum range limit. If for safety,someone is going to be restricted from firing based on the power of their gun, its only safe and fair to also restrict the other person and require them to accept a safety kill. I personally think this is a crock of shit. Step one: If you shoot for faces as a precision tool like a sniper, then you are the worst kind of airsofter out there. I hold higher regard for the kids who show up with Realtree camo and Adidas tennis shoes with a handful of hicaps. Step two: the Lionclaws events don't use bang kills, at ALL, with hotter FPS limits, and they NEVER have issues like we constantly have brought up by the SAME people over and over. Example: Two players come within the everyman's engagement limit of 10 feet face to face. Both players have to parlay, until they reach a safe distance, then return to the play. If ONE player happenstances across another player and the 2nd player is unaware of his presence, bang kills are still NOT a tactical solution. At this point, one MUST transition to a sidearm, back off, or close distance and place a hand on the other players shoulder/touch them once with a rubber knife then calmly inform the victim that he has been defeated with a melee attack. That worked ISSUE FREE at Northern Wind, Lightning Strike, AND Irene this past year. On the subject of a safety issue, aim for gear. If you're sitting in whatever it is you call a hide, and 8 targets enter a zone where no hard cover is between them and you, and you're still aiming at faces/unprotected heads, you should consider another sport to play, because I quickly wouldn't allow you at any of my events ever. I wear a plate carrier for the look I try to achieve, but my big hollow fake plates have another good purpose. When a bb strikes them, they make a loud, hollow thwack, informing me that I have been shot, whether I could feel it or not. I can whole heartedly understand a headshot if thats ALL your target presents you, but you had 7 or 8 full targets with no cover, and only 3 of them NOT wearing plate carriers. The field refs know paintball and only enforce basic safety rules such as "goggles and masks on in the field", "use of barrel covers in the staging area" They would have been far more useful if they had any kind of working knowledge of airsoft (yes, I finally admit that there is a world of difference between airsoft and paintball) I had to tell three different kids (all on tan team) to put their masks back on, repeatedly, the refs finally caught one of them and took one his cards and gave him a warning, but only after I went and found the ref near the registration booth to report the mattter. (hence the need for embedded airsoft refs with each squad) Duh, they work at a paintball arena and play paintball. I think they performed their duty quite diligently all day. And for the record, if I have to have a ref wearing distinct ref clothing walking around with me in the woods, so do you. I think that a Saturday game would have been preferable to most folks but in my case it didn't really matter. I wish that there had been more of a staff presence as far as referees familiar with airsoft. I would have liked to see safety rules enforced instead of amended to suit egos. Take the sniper-kill, it's to prevent injury! Why not have it called a "safety kill" becasue it should be about safety so it can not be refused by anyone when you get too close. I don't want to hear the excuse of"its milsim" or "we come to shoot not to bang-kill"! I came to shoot too, but I don't want to see someone digging a bb out of their skin later. If we are going to be told to "shoot them next time", why have engagement limits at all, what if next time it's a 14 year old kid that wasn't wanting to get drilled? Blah, etc. Saturday or Sunday doesnt matter if I get enough time for a request off. See my above comments in regards to that. If someone doesn't want to get shot, they should take up knitting or some other non-flying projectile related hobby. The last little stunt for the day that finished it off for me, was on a par with several other incidents we have had at events where one person gets mad and confronts or attempts to intimidate or injure the other person. I have had to make offical notification on the matter so I will not discuss it further here and I strongly urge you not to invole yourself with this matter if you are not directly concerned. More blah blah blah. Witnessed part of it, watched a large quantity of BB's sail into you as if you were a bullet-proof swamp-wookie before I saw hands up. Didn't see what happened to your spotter, heard story, don't care. Drama is for Days of our Lives and Lost, not for airsoft. All in all, if I would have to rate TFI's event based on what they had control over, I would give their performance 8 out of 10. I wish there had been more air soft refs and I wish they would have passed out the cards so snipers could claim their kills, but that's it. Other than that, it was good to see some old friends and it was an outstanding effort by TFI. That did puzzle me that NO one handed out sniper trophy cards. Whatever happened with that, I don't know. Definitely a mechanic that could have made for more points on Tans side, because I didn't see many snipers at ALL on green. (then again, Echo saw Alpha ONCE, and then basically only interacted with Bravo and Foxtrot all day.) My thoughts on the matter. Stop the drama, etc. I'm tired of it. Pull your triggers, not your ego's, BOTH sides of the issue.
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Post by cqbr on Mar 22, 2010 14:12:44 GMT -5
Hahaha...I so wish I was there.
Anymore pictures aside from Sean's?
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Post by TheEnd on Mar 22, 2010 14:17:50 GMT -5
This is something I often hear complaining about, seeing people flinch. Someone flinching doesn't mean they were shot, I agree with you there. I should have added that I was using a scope and could see the BB's bounce off of them. The three times it happened they were out in the open. I'm over it now. It was just disappointing because it was my first outdoor game and I died A LOT, and it would have been nice to get the kills I earned. I really enjoyed it and I will be playing more outdoor games for sure.
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Post by Great Troub of Troubistan on Mar 22, 2010 14:22:03 GMT -5
Also, another thing I want to bring up. Echo squad had an average of 4-5 years of experience playing Airsoft and none of the people on that squad had ever been accused of cheating ever. Our squad leader is one of the most respected players on this forum and in the state. We love this game and honor the rules to a tee. Hell, they can attest to me calling out when I brushed up against a twig and it felt like a bb and I sat there with a killrag on my head till they told me that no had had fired a single shot. We even tell each other when someone else has hit us. So you might wanna rethink when you try to tell the Ref's we're cheaters, because we killed your squad. Just because we worked well as a squad, used cover properly, followed Rel's (fantastic) orders to a tee, and had a great medic doesn't mean we cheat.
To the Ref's thank you for taking the cries of children with a grain of salt.
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Post by Task Force: Iris on Mar 22, 2010 15:14:26 GMT -5
I really want to put an end to the complaints of "People Not Calling Hits".
This is a general statement.
Guys, this game is based on honor and calling yourself out when you get hit. The second you don't do that the game goes to crap. Look at this thread and game, by all account we ran a great game for you guys (if there is anything we can improve on let us know). However some of the players that either got hit and didn't call it or thought they hit someone and started yelling have lowered the game quality. When you get hit just go to spawn and 15min later your back in.
I love MILSIM Airsoft and we travel around to various states to play; Michigan Airsoft is the only airsoft where we have ever had the many issues with people not calling hits or people thinking people aren't calling hits. Breedland II (WI) got really hot and heavy at the end with one objective left to destroy what happened in the last 15min mattered to win the game, and even then everyone was calling their hits.
The short and skinny is that stuff like this breaks my heart. Like I said I love this game and TFI is trying to give you guys MILSIM; but it's up to you the players to make the game better. So next time someone doesn't call their hit (repeatedly) call a ref over. If they hit you after you hit them and they didn't call it, call your hit (be the bigger man or girl in some cases). And lastly don't be that guy "Call it, CALL it, CALL YOUR F***ING HIT YOU #$#%$%@$%^!"
If you want a change it needs to be made on the field not here on the forums. So please stop calling people out and making a big deal and letting it ruin your game.
TFI doesn't have the staff (or money) to put a ref in every unit, so you guys take the initiative and tell they guy next to you that he just got hit. Please keep it off the forums guys.
Also once again and comments or concerns about how TFI ran the game are welcome; we do it for you guys so we want you to enjoy it.
Cheers,
Guardian ~ TFI Event Organizer
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Post by cqbr on Mar 22, 2010 15:28:45 GMT -5
I really want to put an end to the complaints of "People Not Calling Hits". This is a general statement. Guys, this game is based on honor and calling yourself out when you get hit. The second you don't do that the game goes to crap. Look at this thread and game, by all account we ran a great game for you guys (if there is anything we can improve on let us know). However some of the players that either got hit and didn't call it or thought they hit someone and started yelling have lowered the game quality. When you get hit just go to spawn and 15min later your back in. ....................................................... Also once again and comments or concerns about how TFI ran the game are welcome; we do it for you guys so we want you to enjoy it. Cheers, Guardian ~ TFI Event Organizer Anyone in MI ever try using the Embedded Admin system? It works very well in other states.
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Post by Knife on Mar 22, 2010 16:47:51 GMT -5
Sniper kills are silly and do not make sense.
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Post by trustkill on Mar 22, 2010 16:51:25 GMT -5
Bravo squad actually almost always had 2 refs in eye-shot or right close to us. The one time I had a Tan participant break open screaming at me "CALL YOUR HITS @#(*$(*#&@$*(" I never got nailed but my squadmate right in front of me did. I turned to the ref for his call and I got shot from a different angle. Guess what the ref said "You are now!"
Durbond II was the first major game of my Airsoft experience. I died more times than I would have liked and called every one of my hits. Except for the one time when I got to go straight to yelling "Medic" because I was being honorable and asked the ref who was about 5 feet away.
I would rather not start on the bad foot by not calling hits. If there was a doubt that I got hit I would call it. (Most of the time I was on point and knew when I got hit.)
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Post by TheEnd on Mar 22, 2010 17:55:27 GMT -5
Also, another thing I want to bring up. Echo squad had an average of 4-5 years of experience playing Airsoft and none of the people on that squad had ever been accused of cheating ever. Our squad leader is one of the most respected players on this forum and in the state. We love this game and honor the rules to a tee. Hell, they can attest to me calling out when I brushed up against a twig and it felt like a bb and I sat there with a killrag on my head till they told me that no had had fired a single shot. We even tell each other when someone else has hit us. So you might wanna rethink when you try to tell the Ref's we're cheaters, because we killed your squad. Just because we worked well as a squad, used cover properly, followed Rel's (fantastic) orders to a tee, and had a great medic doesn't mean we cheat. To the Ref's thank you for taking the cries of children with a grain of salt. You and your squad probably did play a fair game. I don't know if I ever faced your squad but I'm certainly not calling you a cheater. That doesn't mean the three problems I had didn't happen. I wasn't trying to make a big deal out of it. TFI asked for constructive criticism, and judging by what people are saying maybe more refs is something they should think of. If that makes me a crying child then so be it. Believe me I'm not trying to take anything away from the event. As I said before I really liked the village missions we did. The role playing was great and I had a lot of fun. The field was awesome and the medic system was good. The ONLY problem I had concerning the event was when we entered the village and they weren't expecting us. It wasn't a big deal as we left for 3 minutes and came back. Again that was the only event problem I had. I had a lot of fun and would like to come back for Durbond 3.
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Monk
New Member
Team Whiplash
Posts: 181
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Post by Monk on Mar 22, 2010 18:28:33 GMT -5
I can't attest to any of the hit calling incidents and honestly don't give a damn but I do have one complaint.
I unpacked all my gear today and found that, quite literally, everything is covered in paintball paint. Drop leg, backpack, plate carrier, bdu's and even the bag I used to carry them in. If you use HS for a future TFI event such as Durbond 3, could you request to have the field 48 hours after a paintball game? I'm aware that paintball paint is not permanent but it's a pain in the ass to take out of 1000D Cordura.
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Post by max432 on Mar 22, 2010 18:38:01 GMT -5
This was my first big outdoor event and it certainly made a good impression, had a great time running on batavia as foxtrot ;D
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Post by Chaos on Mar 22, 2010 19:25:06 GMT -5
I can't attest to any of the hit calling incidents and honestly don't give a damn but I do have one complaint. I unpacked all my gear today and found that, quite literally, everything is covered in paintball paint. Drop leg, backpack, plate carrier, bdu's and even the bag I used to carry them in. If you use HS for a future TFI event such as Durbond 3, could you request to have the field 48 hours after a paintball game? I'm aware that paintball paint is not permanent but it's a pain in the ass to take out of 1000D Cordura. This is from leaning against cover and other paint covered items. Also, paintball paint doesn't dry so even 48 hours after being shot it will still get on your shit. I also think that HS is quite busy and would probaly be unrealistic to reserve the field 48 hours after a paintball game while they are in season. You can't go to a game and expect your shit to be clean when you come back. Just ask Rel the CIRAS I bought from him is dirty as fuck.
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Post by Task Force: Iris on Mar 22, 2010 19:39:43 GMT -5
Believe me I'm not trying to take anything away from the event. As I said before I really liked the village missions we did. The role playing was great and I had a lot of fun. The field was awesome and the medic system was good. I meant people not calling their hits takes away from the game, not banter on here. We will be trying to get more refs in the future and giving the HS refs a more consice briefing, but ultimately it's up to you the players to expel cheating. The one village scenario where you had to wait was because I think you guys came from Castle Roc and we thought you were coming from Archy so you folks showed up about 2min to soon I have nothing else to say. So sorry about that. Lastly, Sorry about the paint. It's HS off season right now so I didn't expect that much gunk. Cheers, TFI
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