Transporting Airsoft in a Vehicle

[Shadow (314)]

Ok, I know some may consider this a necro post but all I've been hearing is suggestions and common sense. It is good to treat anything that looks like a gun as if it were a loaded gun. But what is the actual LAW pertaining to this. Of course, it'd be stupid to have a loaded M9 airsoft pistol with the safety off in the glovebox or in a cupholder, but is it really illegal? If so, can someone please post a section of a legal document explaining this. (not just some guy's opinion or an interview from some police officer.)
Please don't flame me on this, I ask to learn not to actually do this.

[Thor]

You mean is there an actual section of the MCL that says "having a loaded lookalike weapon in the passenger compartment of a vehicle is illegal"? Not to my knowledge. However, just because it is not spelled out in the letter of the law, does not make it legal. Just because you can't find anywhere that spells out that it is illegal, don't just assume you can do it. If I were a cop and saw anything within your reach that looked like a gun, you'd better believe my blood pressure would jump about 50 points and you'd be getting yelled at to get on the ground right quick.

[Shadow (314)]

I understand that precautions are good, that treating all replicas as if they were real guns is good practice, and police officers may error identifying an airsoft gun thinking it's a real gun. Every look-alike should be treated as a loaded real steel gun. Please know I know that. While an officer's actions can have *permanent* consequences, an officer's opinion is not law. While I would like to avoid extended traffic stops and even bullet wounds, I take precautions to protect myself by treating my replicas as real guns, but cannot allow myself to assume it is law.

I know I'm going to frustrate someone with what I have written, and for that I apologize. I don't mean disrespect nor to endanger this sport by putting stupid ideas into people's heads. I merely want a confirmed and definite answer. This could be by either legislative documents or judicial records on common law.

[Thor]

I think the problem you're facing is that since airsoft replicas have not been defined yet, there's no clear ruling on it to my knowledge.

However, if you follow the definition of "firearm" in the Michigan Compiled Laws, you see a problem.

legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-8-3t


8.3t “Firearm” defined.

Sec. 3t.

The word “firearm”, except as otherwise specifically defined in the statutes, shall be construed to include any weapon from which a dangerous projectile may be propelled by using explosives, gas or air as a means of propulsion, except any smooth bore rifle or handgun designed and manufactured exclusively for propelling BB's not exceeding .177 calibre by means of spring, gas or air.

By that definition, all airsoft guns in Michigan should be considered and treated as firearms. Their caliber is greater than .177 and they propel their projectile by air. Why this has not been an issue yet, I do not know.

So to follow the letter of the law, airsoft replicas should LITERALLY be treated as firearms.

[g3sniper]

Mar 9, 2009 12:14:18 GMT -5 Thor said:

I think the problem you're facing is that since airsoft replicas have not been defined yet, there's no clear ruling on it to my knowledge.

However, if you follow the definition of "firearm" in the Michigan Compiled Laws, you see a problem.

legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-8-3t


8.3t “Firearm” defined.

Sec. 3t.

The word “firearm”, except as otherwise specifically defined in the statutes, shall be construed to include any weapon from which a dangerous projectile may be propelled by using explosives, gas or air as a means of propulsion, except any smooth bore rifle or handgun designed and manufactured exclusively for propelling BB's not exceeding .177 calibre by means of spring, gas or air.

By that definition, all airsoft guns in Michigan should be considered and treated as firearms. Their caliber is greater than .177 and they propel their projectile by air. Why this has not been an issue yet, I do not know.

So to follow the letter of the law, airsoft replicas should LITERALLY be treated as firearms.

It all depends on how you interpret the wording above. I found this on michigan.gov

"7. Is a paint ball pistol required to be registered in Michigan?
Upon initial review, it has not been found that a paint ball pistol falls under the definition of a dangerous weapon or firearm. Therefore, is not required at this time to be registered."

so it seems that the ambiguity of "a dangerous weapon" can also cause grey area.

www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1591_3503_4654-10953--,00.html#OTHER_WEAPONS__NON_PISTOLS_

[Scarface]

Whether it is spelled out word for word in the law is irrelevant. I'm a Law Enforcement major at my college I plan on applying to the academy next year. Anyway I believe the treament of airsoft guns as firearms is more of a safety and common sense factor than following the law. Meaning just because it isn't spelled out in the law doesn't mean you should do it. If there was a trend where teenagers or adults were being killed due to possession of an airsoft gun and confusion with the police, it would give more ammunition to the government to more tightly regulate them or place a specific clause in the law regarding airsoft guns as firearms.

In all honesty you can have an airsoft gun on the front seat of your car while you drive. But if you get stopped for a traffic violation or something of the sort your kinda putting yourself in a position to be in trouble. Because a real weapon could have a painted orange tip the officer is going to assume it is a real weapon and is ready to fire. They assume this obviously because being prepared for the worst case scenario keeps officers alive. Placing your weapons in the trunk in a concealed matter and notifying the officer when he/she first contacts you is not only smart, but it will keep you and the officer from any further legal trouble and or death.

Michigan law hasn't really caught up with airsoft guns and what they should classify them as because they are in the "grey" area. According to Wikipedia's airsoft page: "They are legal throughout the U.S, but restrictions exist in certain cities such as Camden, NJ, Newark, NJ, Chicago, IL, New York City and Detroit, MI. The states of New Jersey, Illinois, New York and Michigan, however, do not allow airsoft guns to be used and handled publicly because of the resemblance to real firearms, although Federal and State laws regard airsoft guns as toys."

Regards,
Scar

[Shadow (314)]

Thank you thor and G3, that helped a lot. Scar, you are absolutely right. I agree with you 100%, but I was asking for the law not common sense, even though what you said is entirely accurate and should be followed religiously.

[bigc]

Why in god's name would you even consider having any replica of anytype in the plain view of the public?

Do you really want to be the person that tests an officer to see if they can interpet the law as you do? I promise you a judge will not determine "intent" like you may.

[g3sniper]

jesus guys.... I don't know him, but i can say with 99.999% certainty that shadow has ABSOLUTELY NO INTENTION OF CARRYING HIS GUN IN PLAIN VIEW.

he just saw this post and that everybody was throwing in their two cents, so he is curious, and wants to know if anybody knows, and can show proof, of what the actual fucking law is.
everybody agrees that you should treat it like a real weapon, and keep it in a case in your car, and out of view in public. as a curious citizen, he wants to know what the law actually says about it.

[Exile]

I don't think he is really trying to "Test" our legal system. I get the impression that if something bad were to happen that he would want to know his rights and whether or not he could be miss charged for an otherwise non punishable crime.

[Thor]

There's no need to flame him guys, he got his answer. Sounds like he honestly was just curious as to if there were anything in the letter of the law. Turns out, the law is rather ambiguous on the subject as it likely hasn't been tested yet. You can bet though that were it to happen, the law is not likely to be on the side of the defendant.

[SWAT A4]

Mar 9, 2009 13:31:32 GMT -5 Scarface said:

Whether it is spelled out word for word in the law is irrelevant. I'm a Law Enforcement major at my college I plan on applying to the academy next year.

In all honesty you can have an airsoft gun on the front seat of your car while you drive.

Regards,
Scar

Scarface, with all respect, I am a Criminal Justice major myself. It doesn't make us lawyers or judges, however I feel your information is a wrong. The law, in technical terms, does in fact say it's illegal to have it on your passenger seat... (And don't cite Wiki when you're talking any type of law, please!)

I know Mi is different, but in chicago Airsoft guns are treated as a real firearm on most standards.

Here, if you hold a shop up with an Airgun/bb gun/Airsoft replica you are charged with a Armed/Aggravated Robbery

If you really care to look, you can google it, however this is not MI. law. so it's irrelevant.

I know you are looking for an exact law on this, but there may not be. But, I'm not going to make myself responsible by saying that there is now law in MI about it, because your County, City, etc can make their own laws on it. It may boil down to where you live.

I live in a southern suburb of chicago, legal here. In the city, and some of my neighboring towns, it's illegal to own/transport/purchase/sell Airsoft. A 10 minute drive is all it takes for the law to change.

OK, as for the actual law.... Does it say. "Don't carry an HFC m9 in your glovebox" -- No.

1. Under Michigan law, All pellet guns are firearms.
2. Airsoft guns, as defined falls under "pellet guns." (# A small, solid or densely packed ball or mass, as of food, wax, or medicine.)
3. Back to the law: The proper way to transport a pistol in a vehicle if you do not hold a CPL permit. The pistol must be: unloaded; in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms; and in the trunk, or for a vehicle which does not have a trunk, where the closed case designed for the storage of firearms is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.

Which is why in my Article I had it in a pistol case under the back seat. There was no trunk of that vehicle, and it was unloaded, in a case, out of reach.
Some info found here, Google is your friend though.
www.mcrgo.org/mcrgo/d_ccwfaq.asp

[Crazyman™]

Well, there isn't a law stating I can't take a shit on your chest either, but I'd be willing to bet it's still going to land me in a heap of trouble.

I wouldn't come on the forums and try starting an arguement over safety or common sense. If you're stupid enough to put what appears to be a gun where someone can see it, or you can reach it, you're an idiot. Nuff said.

We have enough kiddies and morons on these forums without you trying to convince them to do more stupid shit with technicalities.

Whether it's written to the letter or not, don't do it.

[bigc]

Exactly!

[Scarface]

Mar 10, 2009 2:16:55 GMT -5 SWAT A4 said:

Mar 9, 2009 13:31:32 GMT -5 Scarface said:

Whether it is spelled out word for word in the law is irrelevant. I'm a Law Enforcement major at my college I plan on applying to the academy next year.

In all honesty you can have an airsoft gun on the front seat of your car while you drive.

Regards,
Scar

Scarface, with all respect, I am a Criminal Justice major myself. It doesn't make us lawyers or judges, however I feel your information is a wrong. The law, in technical terms, does in fact say it's illegal to have it on your passenger seat... (And don't cite Wiki when you're talking any type of law, please!)

I know Mi is different, but in chicago Airsoft guns are treated as a real firearm on most standards.

Here, if you hold a shop up with an Airgun/bb gun/Airsoft replica you are charged with a Armed/Aggravated Robbery

If you really care to look, you can google it, however this is not MI. law. so it's irrelevant.

I know you are looking for an exact law on this, but there may not be. But, I'm not going to make myself responsible by saying that there is now law in MI about it, because your County, City, etc can make their own laws on it. It may boil down to where you live.

I live in a southern suburb of chicago, legal here. In the city, and some of my neighboring towns, it's illegal to own/transport/purchase/sell Airsoft. A 10 minute drive is all it takes for the law to change.

OK, as for the actual law.... Does it say. "Don't carry an HFC m9 in your glovebox" -- No.

1. Under Michigan law, All pellet guns are firearms.
2. Airsoft guns, as defined falls under "pellet guns." (# A small, solid or densely packed ball or mass, as of food, wax, or medicine.)
3. Back to the law: The proper way to transport a pistol in a vehicle if you do not hold a CPL permit. The pistol must be: unloaded; in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms; and in the trunk, or for a vehicle which does not have a trunk, where the closed case designed for the storage of firearms is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.

Which is why in my Article I had it in a pistol case under the back seat. There was no trunk of that vehicle, and it was unloaded, in a case, out of reach.
Some info found here, Google is your friend though.
www.mcrgo.org/mcrgo/d_ccwfaq.asp

Swat:

I did not intend for my stating that I was a CJ major to give myself credit or anything of the sort. Just thought I would put it up there because we cover some of these types of issues in class. I appreciate your response and your time to hunt down your info.

And if you were to hold up a bank or store or whatever with an airsoft gun anywhere in the country you would be charged with armed robbery. This is because to meet the standards for robbery to be a crime there has to be a threat of iminent danger. The threat or iminent danger you present to a bank teller would be an airsoft gun because they are unaware it is a toy. For example you cannot rob a house because you cannot threaten a house, but you can burglarize a house, obviously my point has been made.

Regards,
Scar