Farmington CQC: April 5th/6th

[Devil]

Take me off please.

[Hunter]

dusty said:

^^When he says extremely close he means it. IMO $15-20 is not worth playing in a place with no large rooms, just a bunch of cramped hallways and doors. You can hardly even breach most areas, it's just too tight. This leads to most of the games ending with time limits because everyone knows that as soon as they walk through a door they're going to get laced from five feet away. I went an entire day and I didn't even go through a single 100 round mag, despite getting plenty of kills. Unless you start hosting some cheaper pistols only games or make improvements to the field, I probably wont be back too soon.

In cqc your not suppost to be able to make 100 ft shots off. And like Slipknot said downstairs is normaly pistols only and is a little more open.

[Knief]

The basement is essentially worthless at this point. It's a great way to get about 6 people out of the way from your game upstairs, but it's hardly a selling point until you change it. I think that lifting the player cap and upping the price here are both bad decisions that will lead to bad gameplay and eventually decreased attendance.

[Hunter]

I was going to have it marked at 35 (like always), But everyone knows if 30 sign up we will only get ~20-25 people to show. So seeing that everyone wants a player cap we will set it at 35 people for both days. We will re-build parts on the field Downstairs but we simply dont have the funding yet to purchase material and hire worker's so we can build. (Ive recieved lots of helpfull pm's on how to fix it to airsoft style play). Expect about two more games worth of play to build up a decent amount of money to get it up to par. People think we simply make a "killing" on profit when no one knows what it takes to even run an indoor facility. If anyone wants to know the real deal on running an airsoft game in this building please send an email to [e-mail] and the owner will gladly send you a list of how much we put into this to make it suitable for public to play.

[Mosin]

I think that clearly not throwing any money into your own field while continuing to not adress said problems from all three previous games both downstairs and upstairs will be what leads to a declined attendance.

I've played CQC before, The haunted winery is not CQC. It's a clusterfuck of narrow hallways, and pitch black rooms, with tarps over some doors. All people do is camp corners, no one knows how to stack up, and no one has enough nerve to breach a room knowing full well they are going to get shot (With the exception of Knief.. We did some damage man).

I personally feel that until I see money is being put into this field, a player cap of no more than 30 is enforced, and the price is lowered, I won't be attending. I also know that I'm not alone on this.

hunter2493 said:

I was going to have it marked at 35 (like always), But everyone knows if 30 sign up we will only get ~20-25 people to show. So seeing that everyone wants a player cap we will set it at 35 people for both days. We will re-build parts on the field Downstairs but we simply dont have the funding yet to purchase material and hire worker's so we can build. (Ive recieved lots of helpfull pm's on how to fix it to airsoft style play). Expect about two more games worth of play to build up a decent amount of money to get it up to par. People think we simply make a "killing" on profit when no one knows what it takes to even run an indoor facility. If anyone wants to know the real deal on running an airsoft game in this building please send an email to [e-mail] and the owner will gladly send you a list of how much we put into this to make it suitable for public to play.

I can tell you what I know, from being around Doc (Owner of MOA) and just knowing natural forces of business. Let's see what you've got to cover here.. Insurance being the first.. It costs Doc $250 for 2 million in insurance for one day, I doubt you exceed that, so we'll say $200 on Insurance. Then what's next.. Heating? You share that bill with all other tennenants in the place, which leads to it being next to nothing, and it being a law reguardless if we're there or not to play.

Insurance is the only price I see here being outside of what your normal monthly bill is, and if you were to host a game at $20 a head, that'd mean that 10 people attending would cover that bill. So where does that other $600 go to?

All I know is this.. Everytime you host one of these games, the next one you've got a new weapon, or a new loadout. It seems like all it's going towards is lining your pockets.

[sharpshooter9]

I think that 20 for a UNDEVELOPED field is way too over the top, as its basiclly just a rec game with no food and the field is what? 2 feet square every room?

Edit: When I played there, I actually skipped the next few games since it was getting way to repitive, as the place is TINY so when you move even a inch, you are gonna get ambushed, and you can't see who hit you! Because the corners are so damn dark. Last time, it was Light Camo vs Team Rage and dark camo, it was even impossible for our team to move as we know that team rage is waiting at a corner ready to give us bruises if we move, so we had 12 people stuffing at a wall and shooting out every once in a while, and the curtain things are so cheap! Since everytime someone can just stick a gun there and there is no way anyone could get them.

[Knief]

Like I said in my PM, Hunter, you only need to make two major changes to the upstairs, both of which are cheap, to make it more playable. Figure out your lighting, because the 90% dark 10% surface of the sun stuff just doesn't work. And then just put doors up where the tarps are. You can do one make shift door for $5 hinges, $5 handles, and $10 plywood and paint. It'd take 5 minutes of measuring and sawing and another 10 to attach the hardware, assuming you try to line up the hinges well. And there are what, 5 doors that need to be replaced? Maybe 10? That's between $100-$200 to drastically increase playability. As mosin said, you make that off of 10 players or less.

[KEVLAR]

Hello i know my opinion doesn't matter to you guys but I'm gonna say it anyways.

This was my first CQB event i didn't really know what to except. When i got there there was a strange sent in the air and i was worried about it being black mold but i doubt that is an issue. The only things that i didn't like were the low light conditions i never tried to rush into rooms because i knew if I ran in there would be 3 people siting in a dark corner waiting. Also on the wavier I don't know who wrote it but I would suggest taking it to a lawyer, because there were some spelling mistakes and other errors. I had a blast and wish that they were hosted every weekend or every other weekend. And if you do put said doors up instead of the flaps which i think are a good idea people like me will be tempted to kick them down. I also think that the $20 price tag is fair. I think its kind of Hunter and his family to open up they're Haunted winery for airsofters. I am not trying to be a kiss ass but begers can be chosey.

[M.S.-ARC]

Would it be possible to create a thread for the Farmington CQB discussion in the Airsoft Discussion section? Otherwise this thread will just turn into a back and forth between the opposing sides and it will go completely away from the event scheduled.

Since this is being discussed though I might as well throw in some of my thoughts. I agree that the $20 is a bit steep but clearly there is a five minute way around that which most people seem to be ignoring. I also agree that there should be a player cap and for me it seemed like the game last saturday had too many people so the cap in my mind should be no more than 30. I also agree that there should be a no-camping rule unless there are specific objectives like the hostage game (which I thought was the best scenario we ran that day). There's definitely a whole list of things that could be changed to make it better but I think it's unreasonable to expect all those things to be addressed by the next event.

With all that said it's really up to the owner how much they want to charge since it is their place. Last I knew of there was nothing wrong with someone making money with something they have. I don't know all the expenses and the costs to run a facility like that and even though it might be nice to know it so we can get the whole picture it's really none of our business. It's just like requiring everyone to post how much they make and how much they spend a month.

I think we can all agree that this isn't the perfect CQB place since it wasn't one to begin with but at this point if anyone wants to play any indoor games in Michigan we've only got one place to go and until another better place pops up I'll try to show my support. I'm pretty sure that a lot of the people firing negative things have also at one point praised this place. We don't have to dig very far to see that. Was that just all talk or didn't we all generally have a good time playing airsoft?

My only interest in this facility is just to play airsoft and to be able to have a place to play when it gets too cold outside. My very first ever post on any forum in my whole life was on SEMIA and I asked the question if there was an indoor place around here. semiairsoft.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=Fields&action=display&thread=1165341451 Now that this is here and this is the only place around don't let your disagreements shut this place down for guys like me who just want to play.

[KEVLAR]

Is spy-ops still going to move to the new place that was talked about in the link you posted MS. ARC?

[M.S.-ARC]

The last time I heard about it which was probably a year ago It wasn't likely to happen but things could have changed.

[Hunter]

Most people dont read the post in the begining... Like M.S.-ARC said there is a five minute way to get around paying 20.00. Go to www.thehauntedwinery.com and click on "contact us"
send us an email with your legal name, age, address and phone #. When we recieve it we will make you a membership card so you get the discount. (These cards also have long run savings like every 4 games you attend you get a free bag of bb's...ETC.)

The player cap is set at 35 people.

[Roz]

Amen to that M.S.-ARC! I think everyone has voiced their opinion more than enough about the facility. If you do not want to play there, don't. Personally, I am content with it since its the only viable indoor field. We should all be thankful that the place even exists.

[dusty]

hunter2493 said:

dusty said:

^^When he says extremely close he means it. IMO $15-20 is not worth playing in a place with no large rooms, just a bunch of cramped hallways and doors. You can hardly even breach most areas, it's just too tight. This leads to most of the games ending with time limits because everyone knows that as soon as they walk through a door they're going to get laced from five feet away. I went an entire day and I didn't even go through a single 100 round mag, despite getting plenty of kills. Unless you start hosting some cheaper pistols only games or make improvements to the field, I probably wont be back too soon.

In cqc your not suppost to be able to make 100 ft shots off. And like Slipknot said downstairs is normaly pistols only and is a little more open.

100 ft. no 10 ft. yes. Honestly, without at least some rooms bigger than 10 square feet to breach you can hardly call it cqc. It's more of a haunted house orgy with some guns and yelling thrown in.

[Hunter]

If you don't like it don't go. We provided a facility, We had to try and convert our 20 year old haunted house into a airsoft facility. all people do is criticize us? We had two games don't expect it to be perfect by then...We are working on stuff to make it better but its all trial and error right this minute.