Complete gas chart

[platinumpyro]

Since pistols are my weapon of choice, I have naturally come to know a decent amount about the types of gas that power them. I'm not trying to pretend that this is expert knowledge or anything, but if your new to gas guns, this should save you a few headaches.


There are six fairly common types of gas used in airsoft

HFC134A ~~~ 71 psi ~~ (AKA: Blue gas, Japanese Gas)
Green gas ~~ 100 psi ~~(AKA: Top gas, Omega gas)
HFC22 ~~~~ 121 psi ~~ (AKA: Red gas, "new" green gas, propane)
Propane ~~~ 122 psi ~~ (AKA: "new" green gas; Used with adapter)
Black Gas ~~ 138 psi ~~ (AKA: Propylene?)
CO2 ~~~~~~ 837 psi ~~(AKA: Nothing, had to keep the column)

(PSI is +/- 5, and measured at 70* F / 21* C)


HFC-134a
At 114 PSI, HFC134a is the lowest powered gas, and safest to use if you are unsure what your gun can handle. Most Japanese guns are designed for HFC134a and may be damaged if fired using anything more powerful. However, the reason that it is safer, is that this type of gas is less powerful, which means lower velocity shots.

Green gas (old)
While it cannot be legally shipped anymore, no list would be complete without the classic green gas, which at 100psi in notably more powerful than HFC-134a. If you have a Japanese gun, use at your own risk, but there have been no issues I know about with using it in Taiwanese, Chinese, or upgraded guns.

HFC-22 (AKA, Red or "new" green gas)
Some argue that HFC22 is green gas, and some argue that it isn't, but it would appear that at one point "green gas" got banned, so they started labeling HFC22 as green gas, even though it used to be "Red gas"(though that was more of a nickname). Either way, the "new" green gas is the next step up (at 121psi) and is commonly considered safe for Taiwanese/Chinese guns, though you should understand that there are no guarantees and you should use it at your own risk.

Propane ("New" Green gas)
Most newer types of green gas have been tested by various people and proven to be propane with a few additives. Propane, however, is much cheaper (at 1/3 - 1/2 the price) and much safer, since it is stored in much stronger containers. If you choose to use propane, it is important to lube your gun on a regular basis, sense there is no lubricant mixed in.

Black gas (HC-1270/propylene?)
I'm going to go out on a limb by putting black gas and propylene are probably the same thing, Black gas seems to be surrounded by lots of theories, but after a decent amount of research it appears that it is either magic or propylene. It is tested at 138psi, which could likely be the same as propylene's 140psi after a bad C to F conversions. Either way, it is powerful and should only be used on upgraded guns.


CO2
Carbon dioxide is much more common in paintball than airsoft, but nonetheless is much more efficient, since it is compressed to 837psi. It is often used in "Classic Airsoft" guns as an external power source, but must be regulated.

Help

I'm by no means an expert so please point out if I was wrong anywhere. Most of my sources are from personal testing, or publicly posted lab measurements.

Sources

I'd hate to lie, so in all honesty this is a list of places that I'm fairly sure are the sources if info in the article. It took over 5 hours to find the info and I wrote it quite some time ago, so it's possible some are wrong.

Unknown European automobile ac manual
An auto shops A/C chargers console
(Both from a former job in FL, used for 134a and hfc22)

www.flameengineering.com/Propane_Info.html

A/C refill can
Propane canister
(Don't know the brand)

ull.chemistry.uakron.edu/erd/
(Think it was here, maybe a similar site though)

And of course, the first place to look is...
www.uspto.gov/index.html
www.sipo.gov.cn/sipo_English/
www.jpo.go.jp/index_e/patents.html (you will need a translator)

[Thor]

That's actually a pretty good chart. The only thing I might recommend is that any sources beyond your own testing get linked at the bottom of the post to a) give them credit where credit's due, and b) to help verify your research. Other than that, a great post.

[platinumpyro]

The sources are just chemistry references, unfortunately I'm not sure which ones I got the numbers out of.

[Knief]

HFC 22 (more correctly called HCFC 22) doesn't exist in airsoft anymore, and hasn't for some time. It's not what red gas is made of. HCFC 22 is banned in America because it's detrimental to the Ozone layer. The only people who have been able to get their hands on it in this country in the last 8 years or so is HVAC technicians, and even that may not be the case anymore. HCFC is/was on the slow ban list and scheduled to be phased out by, I believe, 2009. I may have my date wrong here, but it wouldn't be later than 2012 or earlier than 2008.

Regardless, no normal consumer has been running "HFC 22" through their gas guns for quite some time. You've gotta have connections to get it, and it was most likely for testing purposes, given that it wouldn't be cost effective to use.

Green Gas can still be shipped, provided that it's in proper containers with a pressure release valve. Many cans of green gas will remain unshipped because of that, but a lot of places still carry the compliant cans.

You might also want to mention that "HFC134a" refers to two very similar gasses: 1,1,1,2 tetrafluoroethane and difluoroethane. Tetrafluoroethan is more comming, but difluoroethane gives you every so slightly greater velocity and a better resistance to the cool down effect. These are results from tests I've run in my own "lab."

Lastly, you need to cite your sources or this thread is locked and deleted in 24 hours. Without links to where you got the information that you didn't gather yourself, you're taking credit for work that isn't yours. But more importantly, we don't know what qualifies your information as being reliable. We can't fact check it. For all I know, somebody filled up their mags with the different gasses and blew the release valve into their tire guage to "find" their pressure. It'd help to know where and how the tests took place.

[Seven]

Sept 5, 2008 17:03:38 GMT -5 Knief said:

HFC 22 (more correctly called HCFC 22) doesn't exist in airsoft anymore, and hasn't for some time. It's not what red gas is made of. HCFC 22 is banned in America because it's detrimental to the Ozone layer. The only people who have been able to get their hands on it in this country in the last 8 years or so is HVAC technicians, and even that may not be the case anymore. HCFC is/was on the slow ban list and scheduled to be phased out by, I believe, 2009. I may have my date wrong here, but it wouldn't be later than 2012 or earlier than 2008.

Regardless, no normal consumer has been running "HFC 22" through their gas guns for quite some time. You've gotta have connections to get it, and it was most likely for testing purposes, given that it wouldn't be cost effective to use.

Green Gas can still be shipped, provided that it's in proper containers with a pressure release valve. Many cans of green gas will remain unshipped because of that, but a lot of places still carry the compliant cans.

You might also want to mention that "HFC134a" refers to two very similar gasses: 1,1,1,2 tetrafluoroethane and difluoroethane. Tetrafluoroethan is more comming, but difluoroethane gives you every so slightly greater velocity and a better resistance to the cool down effect. These are results from tests I've run in my own "lab."

Lastly, you need to cite your sources or this thread is locked and deleted in 24 hours. Without links to where you got the information that you didn't gather yourself, you're taking credit for work that isn't yours. But more importantly, we don't know what qualifies your information as being reliable. We can't fact check it. For all I know, somebody filled up their mags with the different gasses and blew the release valve into their tire guage to "find" their pressure. It'd help to know where and how the tests took place.

Difuoroethane; gas or liquid. It is usually stores at a compressed liquid and it's temperature is below 0 degrees. This is why its a good gas to use. Only problem is the molecules are quite large so it keeps the compression down low. The smaller the molecule the fast they move. In proportion to the compression w/ temperature. This is why propane is so much more powerful CH3-CH2-CH3 is much small in molcular size than difluoroethane

[Knief]

For sure, and that's why difluoroethane is a good substitute for the more common tetrafluoroethane (hfc134a) and not propane. It condenses at near the same pressure as tetra-, perhaps just one or two psi more to account for the extra 3 fps I noticed on the first shot. The real benefit that I got was that it cooled down less when shot under the same conditions. It was only a marginal gain, something like 15 fps by the 6th shot, but that's enough to choose one over the other when they're both sitting in front of you.

As you said, it wouldn't give you the results that propane would, and I would hope that people wouldn't use it with that intent.

[platinumpyro]

All the information is gathered from the cans of gas, product descriptions on various sites, and public scientific references. I can list some sites and guides that I probably used, but I made the list awhile ago and honestly don't remember which books I used. No information is taken from another assembled list other than public information on various types of gas. I apologize if the post is insufficient and will remove it myself if need be.

[Ghast]

If Knief is keeping up his word, which I have no doubt he is, you have until 6pm tonight to cite everything.

[sh1fteh]

Now to just figure out where to find HFC134A.

[Connors]

Just use PC Duster gas, and do the same as you would with propane-ie get an adaptor and add a bit of SI oil every now and then. Kneif can chime in on this one, he's MIA's God of the gas gun world, and knows a whole hell of a lot more on the subject than me, but I believe duster gas is the same as airsoft 134A gas.

It does kinda suck though that there is no way to put auto 134A gas to good use. This came to mind when I was in Meijer today. Saw the giant packages of 134A cans. If only there was a way to use those.

[COL Champagne]

To help with the refrigerant questions on usage, yes, HFC-22 (or R-22, as it is usually referred to) is being completely phased out of any and all uses. It cannot be obtained legally by anyone other than HVAC Technicians, and only from licensed wholesale supply shops. It is manufactured by only one company, and can only be used legally to recharge existing R-22 based cooling systems. Any use of it other than this, or use of any other brand, is illegal and carries a mighty hefty fine, somewhere in the $25,000 range in some cases. I believe December 31, 2009 is the day that sales of R-22 equipment becomes illegal. However, a new refrigerant, R-410a, is replacing R-22, and I wouldn't be surprised if the next couple of years yields research on new GBBs running on R-410a. So, if someone owns a weapon that they are using R-22 in, I would recommend that they stop. As far as R-134a goes, it will still be allowed for use in Airsoft weapons, with no forseen ban on its use in the near future. However, do NOT, under any circumstances, get caught using a canister of R-134a meant for an automobile, or a jug meant for HVAC applications, as you can be charged a hefty fine for that as well. Stupid, yes, but it's the law. Being an apprentice HVAC Technician, I learned that it is very important to know and follow these laws, as they are taken very seriously.

[Knief]

Thanks for the reminder on the specifics, Champagne. I couldn't come up with the date for the life of me.

Connors,

Duster gas is usually either tetra- or difluoroethane, although I wouldn't be surprised if there was one or two random manufacturers who use some other low pressure, non-flammable, non-toxic gas in their cans. Hidden deep within the fine print of the duster gas cans is usually a description of the contents. For example, the Fisherbrand stuff that I have that's meant to be used on labratory equipment actually says twice that it's tetra-. My old 3M brand stuff was di-. You just have to read the can to see exactly what you're getting. Or, you don't have to care and just get whatever. Either way, it's going to work.