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Post by Pagan on Nov 24, 2013 21:30:50 GMT -5
clutchhoffmaster,
Your questions have nothing to do with the thread, and you triple posted.
Please read the forum rules before posting again.
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Post by tommyo on Apr 14, 2014 14:55:55 GMT -5
Folks - I am working with the Michigan legislature to introduce a bill this session that will exempt air, spring, and gas powered guns from the "firearm" definition. We expect to have a sponsor for this bill soon. Please visit the Michigan Airgun Alliance Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/miairgun) to get more details, to "Like" us (believe it or not, that online support actually helps our cause in the legislature).
There are a number of issues that we are addressing with this.
1) It is already covered by Michigan law that the use of any device to imply that you have a firearm while committing a crime is treated as the possession of a firearm, even if it is just your finger or an Airsoft replica. Reclassifying Airsoft as not firearms will not impact the prosecution of criminals.
2) Ordering of an Airsoft from online is not allowed by some retailers as it places them in a legal gray area. Legally, in Michigan, only an FFL dealer can accept a shipment of firearms (including Airsoft) from across state lines, and it must be from another FFL.
3) Transporting an Airsoft pistol inside of your car can only be done if you have a CPL - case or not. All Airsoft rifles must be in the trunk of your car.
4) The use of an Airsoft gun in any location not zoned and licensed for the use of firearms (eg; gun range) is a misdemeanor.
5) The use of an Airsoft pistol by a person under the age of 18 is a misdemeanor.
6) The use of an Airsoft pistol by a minor without direct supervision of their guardian is a misdemeanor.
7) The purchase of a new Airsoft gun (pistol or rifle) can only be made at a licensed dealer holding an FFL, subject to all Federal background checks and pistol registrations with the State police.
There have been cases brought to prosecutors for violations of these laws, but to date - THANKFULLY - not one time did a prosecutor bring forward the charges. But as we are entering into a political environment, especially in certain areas of Michigan like Lansing and Grand Rapids, ruled by strict anti-gun mayors and commissions it is only a matter of time before a local prosecutor takes their lawful ability to prosecute one of us to court. And we would lose by the letter of the law. Further to the risks we are taking from that arena lies the local merchants we all rely upon. Big stores like Walmart, Cabellas, Meijer, etc. all have FFL's for their rifle and ammunition sales. These businesses can legally sell Airsoft. Our small shops we all use could be pushed out of the business if these big companies so chose. That all said, The Michigan Airgun Alliance is lobbying the Michigan Legislature to exclude air guns from the definition of a firearm under Michigan law in order to facilitate their purchase for competitive sports, recreation and training and to protect air gun owners from laws intended instead to target the criminal use of conventional firearms.
PROPOSED CHANGE:
“FIREARM MEANS ANY WEAPON THAT PROPELS A DANGEROUS PROJECTILE BY USING EXPLOSIVES. FIREARM DOES NOT INCLUDE ANY WEAPON DESIGNED AND MANUFACTURED TO FIRE A PROJECTILE BY MEANS OF SPRING, GAS, OR AIR.”
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Post by tommyo on Apr 14, 2014 14:57:06 GMT -5
Orange tips are only required at the time of purchase (from a retailer, peer-to-peer trades and sales are exempt.) Any other time than that initial purchase, you may take the orange tip off at your discretion. It IS a good idea to put some orange tape on for transport, but is not at all necessary. This is innaccurate. Michigan and California bot prohibit the removal of the orange tip on Airsoft guns. |
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Post by Pagan on Apr 14, 2014 15:04:36 GMT -5
Folks - I am working with the Michigan legislature to introduce a bill this session that will exempt air, spring, and gas powered guns from the "firearm" definition. We expect to have a sponsor for this bill soon. Please visit the Michigan Airgun Alliance Facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/miairgun) to get more details, to "Like" us (believe it or not, that online support actually helps our cause in the legislature). There are a number of issues that we are addressing with this. 1) It is already covered by Michigan law that the use of any device to imply that you have a firearm while committing a crime is treated as the possession of a firearm, even if it is just your finger or an Airsoft replica. Reclassifying Airsoft as not firearms will not impact the prosecution of criminals. 2) Ordering of an Airsoft from online is not allowed by some retailers as it places them in a legal gray area. Legally, in Michigan, only an FFL dealer can accept a shipment of firearms (including Airsoft) from across state lines, and it must be from another FFL. 3) Transporting an Airsoft pistol inside of your car can only be done if you have a CPL - case or not. All Airsoft rifles must be in the trunk of your car. 4) The use of an Airsoft gun in any location not zoned and licensed for the use of firearms (eg; gun range) is a misdemeanor. 5) The use of an Airsoft pistol by a person under the age of 18 is a misdemeanor. 6) The use of an Airsoft pistol by a minor without direct supervision of their guardian is a misdemeanor. 7) The purchase of a new Airsoft gun (pistol or rifle) can only be made at a licensed dealer holding an FFL, subject to all Federal background checks and pistol registrations with the State police. There have been cases brought to prosecutors for violations of these laws, but to date - THANKFULLY - not one time did a prosecutor bring forward the charges. But as we are entering into a political environment, especially in certain areas of Michigan like Lansing and Grand Rapids, ruled by strict anti-gun mayors and commissions it is only a matter of time before a local prosecutor takes their lawful ability to prosecute one of us to court. And we would lose by the letter of the law. Further to the risks we are taking from that arena lies the local merchants we all rely upon. Big stores like Walmart, Cabellas, Meijer, etc. all have FFL's for their rifle and ammunition sales. These businesses can legally sell Airsoft. Our small shops we all use could be pushed out of the business if these big companies so chose. That all said, The Michigan Airgun Alliance is lobbying the Michigan Legislature to exclude air guns from the definition of a firearm under Michigan law in order to facilitate their purchase for competitive sports, recreation and training and to protect air gun owners from laws intended instead to target the criminal use of conventional firearms. PROPOSED CHANGE: “FIREARM MEANS ANY WEAPON THAT PROPELS A DANGEROUS PROJECTILE BY USING EXPLOSIVES. FIREARM DOES NOT INCLUDE ANY WEAPON DESIGNED AND MANUFACTURED TO FIRE A PROJECTILE BY MEANS OF SPRING, GAS, OR AIR.” Seeing as airsoft replicas have been sold in the state for quite some time, I'd love to see where these laws are in the books. I find it odd, that I've played along side of, purchased from, sold to and discussed airsoft at great lengths with several police officers both local and state and never once have heard of a single LAW you've stated here. |
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Post by Knief on Apr 14, 2014 15:26:36 GMT -5
Orange tips are only required at the time of purchase (from a retailer, peer-to-peer trades and sales are exempt.) Any other time than that initial purchase, you may take the orange tip off at your discretion. It IS a good idea to put some orange tape on for transport, but is not at all necessary. This is innaccurate. Michigan and California bot prohibit the removal of the orange tip on Airsoft guns. Please cite this. |
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Post by Timm on Apr 14, 2014 15:29:01 GMT -5
I have never once had to get a replica shipped to an FFL dealer, weather overseas or in country.
Erroneous.
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Post by Gimpalong on Apr 14, 2014 15:29:50 GMT -5
It's entirely understandable that airsoft may fall into a bit of a grey area. That said, if you're going to convince us that certain behavior constitutes a misdemeanor or other type of crime, you're going to have share the actual law with us. You mention that cases regarding airsoft have been brought before prosecutors. Can you share with us the actual cases or provide material supporting this claim? Firearms Laws of MichiganIt seems pretty clear that the definition of "firearm" by the State of Michigan was put in place in 1959 when air-guns were exclusively relegated to firing .177 BBs and neither paintball nor airsoft existed. Open to interpretation, of course, is whether a 6mm BB constitues a "dangerous projectile." The same questions arises as regards .68 caliber paintballs. The Michigan State Police write that in regards to registering paintball guns as concealed weapons There was also an article posted on Mlive, which has since expired due to age, which states in part: Link to the excerpt on Arnie's. |
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Cam
New Member
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Posts: 492
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Post by Cam on Apr 14, 2014 15:47:59 GMT -5
Technically he's correct.
According to Michigan law, anything device that has the capability of propelling a dangerous device OTHER than a smooth bore device not exceeding .177 caliber (I.e. a BB gun), is considered a firearm by the word of the law.
Preceding this is the phrase "unless otherwise noted", allowing for even more grey area.
I personally have not seen any specific definition of an Airsoft gun, but I find it highly improbable that anyone would be prosecuted for it, and even less likely that the AG would waste his time with it.
While something may be against the law, it doesn't mean it's always going to be prosecuted, or even cared about.
Bringing attention to a gray area sport in a time of a massive liberal persecution of firearms may not be the best idea. It could end up ruining a lot of fun for us all.
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Post by tommyo on Apr 15, 2014 13:08:49 GMT -5
Your state law, mostly from Michigan Compiled Law, follows with citation and plain English summary. You can seek out all of these on the Michigan Legislature website or through the State Police in their legislative updates. MCL 750.234f relates to minor in possession of a firearm MCL 752.891, 752.892 cover the possession of a BB handgun by a minor (not a firearm) MCL 750.227c and MCL 750.227d specify the transportation rules of a firearm in a vehicle MCL 750.227(2) states it is a felony to transport a pistol firearm inside a vehicle without a CPL MCL 28.422 provides for the registration and licensing to purchase a firearm MCL 750.82(2) covers the use of any device to cause a person to fear immediate injury (this means that if Airsoft are not firearms but one is used in a crime it is still prosecuted as a deadly weapon) The Federal Gun Control Act of 1968 established the regulations regarding the interstate sale of firearms and the establishment of the Federal Firearm License (FFL) required for same All of these laws reference the term "firearm". This term is defined separate from each law for brevity and ease of definition of such term. In Michigan we have: 8.3t “Firearm” defined. Sec. 3t. The word “firearm”, except as otherwise specifically defined in the statutes, shall be construed to include any weapon from which a dangerous projectile may be propelled by using explosives, gas or air as a means of propulsion, except any smooth bore rifle or handgun designed and manufactured exclusively for propelling BB's not exceeding .177 caliber by means of spring, gas or air. Which means, in short - Airsoft guns are firearms. Airsoft pistols are firearms requiring specific licensing and registration and extra care when transporting. The Federal government does not use that wording, though. Michigan got its wording as a direct result of the Crossman corporation long ago trying to make their product the only "toy" gun allowed to be sold easily in Michigan. It is time to move to align with Federal law and the other states. Thus far there have only been two cases brought to prosecutors which our attorney is aware of, both of which were dismissed - fortunately. Next up - perhaps restoring some sanity to "zero tolerance" laws to let kids be kids! Tommy O |
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Post by Pagan on Apr 15, 2014 13:28:22 GMT -5
All of these laws reference the term "firearm". This term is defined separate from each law for brevity and ease of definition of such term. In Michigan we have: 8.3t “Firearm” defined. Sec. 3t. The word “firearm”, except as otherwise specifically defined in the statutes, shall be construed to include any weapon from which a dangerous projectile may be propelled by using explosives, gas or air as a means of propulsion, except any smooth bore rifle or handgun designed and manufactured exclusively for propelling BB's not exceeding .177 caliber by means of spring, gas or air. Which means, in short - Airsoft guns are firearms. Airsoft pistols are firearms requiring specific licensing and registration and extra care when transporting. Tommy O So anything over 4.5mm is considered a firearm under this. Open to interpretation, of course, is whether a 6mm BB constitues a "dangerous projectile." The same questions arises as regards .68 caliber paintballs. The Michigan State Police write that in regards to registering paintball guns as concealed weapons There was also an article posted on Mlive, which has since expired due to age, which states in part: Link to the excerpt on Arnie's. The only thing classifying airsoft replicas as a firearm would be the 6mm bb, as everything else matches the exclusion perfectly. I just find it funny that major big box retails openly sell and market to minors if they airsoft pose such a legal risk. To me this is just a case of fear mongering that is trying to get us to fight a legal battle which no one seems to be waging. |
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