Operation: Flash Fire - October 15th 2006

[operatordoc01]

do you relize with out a wiaver is some one gets hurt out there the land owner and event planners can get sued for that. A wiaver is ment to cover all possible liability.

just a heads up on this guys.

[silentkilla]

Hole in the Wall's Insurance covers people as low as the age of 13 to virtually all liable accidents. However seeing as I do not own the field, and we have discussed this already with the owner, I would say that he and his nearly 20 years of expirience knows what he is talking about.

[Canto]

It's not our land. We have no onwership and therefore cannot be sued. Our involvement is purley in organization.

Just drop the subject or bring it to PM's Sarge.

[Lynxus]

PM sent

[operatordoc01]

To let you guys know and again this is just a FYI.. I have talked to several legal advisors in the area, and even the event organizers can be sued for this. As for whole in the wall paitball, and their insurance you still need to have a waiver signed that releases them from all lability.. That is why WMI, MOA, and several other places have you fill out a waiver everytime you come to play.. I know this is requited through MOA's insurance policy writers.... This is just a heads up not a put down or anything like that..Im just looking out for you guys in this. I would hate to see something bad happen thats all.

[silentkilla]

Did we not say to bring this to PM's?

[SkyPilot]

dakota123 said:

I emailed the event organizer and they said this:

Point-Man,

I've recently been talking with the field owner, and waivers are not needed for our event. So, just show up as you will.

Thanks for your question and I hope to see you there.

Thanks,

- John Conolly.
Armory Airsoft/Team A.M.A.S.

John,
Can you post the orginal email including the header or the orginating IP address?

The only reason for not wanting waivers is so hasn't have to be submitted or logged for insurance reasons for each event. If this is the case, then I'd be very careful of the liability involved on your part as the organizers. As then the owner may clain no responibility or knowledge of the event.

Also, I would suggest a waiver be created at least on you part to protect your group as the organizers/parties involved with hosting the event.

As the organizers of the event, you are 100% responsible just as the owner of the field for any mishaps that may happen. However the owner could counter sue you for not having insurance or coverage of his field after he gets sued because of the mishap.

I would suggest typing up a simple waiver for the owner of the field to sign stating that his 'paintball company' will cover all insurances for this event and that he or his company will not hold you or your group/organizers/parties for the October 15th Airsoft 'event name here' Game responisble for any occurances or mishaps due to property, accidental damage, personal injury, etc. on the day of this event.

If all this is stated in the email, then great you have nothing to worry.

Also, another thought would be to just have the owner to hire your group's services as Employees for the event. Then your working for the owner/paintball field.

[Lord Gilbon]

If it were only that simple. Do you know what is needed for a waiver at all point-man? We dont even have the time. It HAS to be typed up by a lawer or it will not hold up in court. Not to mention, with or without a waiver we can still get sued if someone has a mishap. Waivers dont do much for you in court.

The owner of hole in the wall has never used waivers for as long as he has been there....which is a long time. He hasnt had any problems yet.

If it is so important to you all then I will type up a "waiver". All though it wont do a thing for us if we get sued since it wasnt typed up by a lawer.

[Lynxus]

Actually OperatorDoc01 typed up the MIRAG waiver and it is legal i asked my dad (hes a lawyer) and he said it does not have to be typed by a lawyer, he said just make sure you have hole in the wall sign it and every one who plays sign it and hole in the walls insurance will be covering you all.

[SkyPilot]

lordgilbon said:

It HAS to be typed up by a lawer or it will not hold up in court. Not to mention, with or without a waiver we can still get sued if someone has a mishap. Waivers dont do much for you in court.

Gilbon, Who says it has to be written by a lawyer? A simple waiver stating that you will not hold the hosting party or Hole-in-the-wall-paintball responsable for property, accidental damage, personal injury, etc.

Now, what will not hold up in court is gross neglect such as allowing a noticable unsafe area for play (such as a falling down barn.)

There is a differnce between accidental injury and injury by neglect of a safe 'play' area.

lordgilbon said:

The owner of hole in the wall has never used waivers for as long as he has been there....which is a long time. He hasnt had any problems yet.

I honestly can't answer this. I'm not aware of his finanical holdings or how his company is constructed. As fas as I may know it's a LLC and the LLC owns the land. Leaving his personal property out of any lawsuit that may occur.

lordgilbon said:

If it is so important to you all then I will type up a "waiver". All though it wont do a thing for us if we get sued since it wasnt typed up by a lawer.

Stop the train! I wanta get off. Dude, i'm not ditching you for your efforts for trying to down play your event. Infact it's just the opposite. I truley support your idea and your efforts, and this is the reason I spoke up. I would hate to see someone get hurt, and they or there parents (should it be a minor) go after you. Please understand I'm looking at the best interests for you and everyone that plays.

There's a great phase for this... We aren't just protecting us, we're also protecting you as a player.

I know you're thinking... how are you protecting the players of the game? Simple. Let's say something happened due to the result of another player. (Sniper shoots someone and they fall off the bridge and break their ankle. ..shit happens right?) Anyhow, the injured party now is pissed because the bridge was unsafe (no side rails) and fell off and step the wrong way onto a rock. The injured party goes after the hosting person, the land owner (because the land owner owns the rock and didn't remove the rock), and then finally the person that cause the mishap to happen... the sniper.

So, now there's three parties involved in the lawsuit. A waiver could prevent all three event from happening and protect the other player (sniper).

Gross Neglect of unsafe and unproper area, would be if the bridge was falling apart and wasn't fixed or removed, then the land owner and the hosting parties could be sued.

This is why waivers are important. To protect everyone including all players involved.

*** Again, please understand i'm trying to help here. Help in a way that will ensure you can host other event again. And if you would like help drafting a waiver protecting yourself and other players, please PM me and we can work out the details.

-Skypilot.

[Point-Man]

Look I didn't mean anything by my post. All I was trying to do is Relay the information I had to help teams that needed the waiver. If you want me to I will post a screenshot of the email. I emailed the event organizer like it said to do on www.team-amas.com and I recieved the email. I know I don't understand all that goes in to getting waivers and even hosting an event I don't care if you have them or don't, that is up to you and the field owner.

[operatordoc01]

I had my wiaver typed and read over by my family attorney and then after he said it was good to go we added it to our website. This is a big thing in all events. the good thing about this, you can have the wiaver on file for each player for up to 6months. that way thay will not have to fill out a new one. you can set them up like this.

I do agree with sky-pilot on everything he said on this... If it goes to court here is the 1st thing asked...."did you sign a wiaver/"

Also in the Planning phase of any airsoft event this should be included in there. I know some on the Organizing Team for this Event had some time to sit down and drafted up a wiaver and then comepare it to some of the others that are out there. Again this is done in the planning phase. (this is just for FYI not for stepping on toes.)

[Canto]

Waiver is now up.

Our apologies on using the geocities webserver, but the Armory Airsoft server is having some issues.

www.geocities.com/asiandude762/waiver.html

For minors please print and fill out all required information.

For adults, you can either fill out one at the field or print and turn it in at admission.

[silentkilla]

Anyhow, our apologies for the mess up. We are quite new at this, to be honest. Print and sign the waviers at your descresion.

[Timm]

Printed out waver and am locked cocked and ready to rock.

See you there...