Matrix Godzilla Super High Torque Performance Motor?

[Tank]

Does anyone here have any experience with this motor? I know it's not cheap, but that doesn't really matter to me.


Specifically I'm trying to determine their torque / speed performance compared to well known torque motors like the JG Blue, or the "Frankentorque" motor that ctres built. Also, any info on longevity would be useful as well. This seems to be a very new motor, so I have not been able to find any reviews on it, let alone any decent specs or a look inside.

I'm planning on placing an order with Evike, because they happen to have the other stuff that I need, so I figured I'd pick up a motor from them at the same time. I'd like to do something on the order of the Ultimate Trigger Response Build that ctres so kindly documented, with the exception of the BTC Spectre mosfet (since you can't find those little bastards anywhere). I am planning on putting in an ASCU Gen.3+ mosfet instead, which also needs a very torquey motor in order to be able to leave out the anti-reversal lever. I know there have been some bad experiences with this fet, but at the same time I also know there have been a lot of success stories. Since I'm very well versed in electronics and am very mechanically inclined, I figured I would have a good chance of being another success story.

[X]

This guys video seems legit enough.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOmNmo8Cu2c

[Tank]

Thanks, yeah I didn't find this video the other day. It sounds like it might be a solid alternative to building a Frankentorque motor. I think I'll pick one up and give my own opinions on longevity after I run it for a while in my soon to be arriving G&P.

[ctres]

That is a pretty decent choice for a motor but it won't have anywhere near the torque of custom motors like a frankentorque and it will have significantly less than a jg blue. The nice thing is that it has very strong magnets and a nice endbell design so it would make a good base for swapping armatures if you decide to ever go that route.

Probably the most important question here is what gear ratio you will be running and what rof you are looking for. Also, I don't see any advantage in not running an ARL and it puts your components at risk. Is there any particular reason you are planning to do that?

[Tank]

Jul 30, 2014 15:43:00 GMT -5 ctres said:

Probably the most important question here is what gear ratio you will be running and what rof you are looking for. Also, I don't see any advantage in not running an ARL and it puts your components at risk. Is there any particular reason you are planning to do that?

RoF, I really don't care about. I only run semi all the time anyway, plus RAGE has changed rifles to be just semi as well in their milsims. What I want is that ridiculous trigger response you built. I know without the Spectre I'll never get the precocking, which I'm bummed about, but they simply no longer seem to exist. So my only concern is to get the semi auto shots as fast as I can. After watching that video, I believe he said he was running ~10:1 gearing, and the RoF sounded fine enough to me with the Godzilla motor.

I only mentioned leaving the ARL out since the Spectre and ASCU were making a big deal about being able to do that, so I figured it must have some advantage. Honestly, before doing that I was going to research in what situations would it be beneficial to do that. Offhand I didn't know of any, though I'm not the foremost expert on teching a gearbox either.

[ctres]

If you go with 10:1 just be careful about what rof you end up at. Even if you don't intend to use it, if you or someone else switches to FA it could end up eating your piston via pre engagement, etc. 40 rps is nearing the upper limit that you can typically run a full stroke setup reliably at, and that is assuming you have taken all of the precautions to prevent destroying your piston. Basically that means you need to have AoE perfect, piston sufficiently lightweighted (swiss cheese, remove piston head bearings, etc as necessary), and a strong enough spring. I'm not saying don't do it, just that you should take these things into account and know that anything at or above 30 rps is when these issues start popping up.

This equation is copied directly from hunterseeker5 on airsoftmechanics (I take no credit) and is very useful for calculating rof with varying motors and gear ratios.
Hunterseeker5's ROF Prediction Method:
ROF=(X*V)/(TPA*ratio)
X= the HS5 constant 809.5135 (for users running weaker batteries, motors with weaker magnets, or otherwise reduced efficiency guns, 675 may be a more accurate value for X)
V= battery's nominal voltage
TPA= the number of winds on an armature of your neodymium magnet motor
Ratio= gear ratio (actual NOT NOMINAL)
ROF= Rate Of Fire

The basic assumptions of the equations are that your battery can supply all the current your motor wants, the gears are shimmed properly and that the motor has neo magnets (you shouldn't be upgrading to anything that doesn't have neo magnets anyways).

For reference, the jg blue has 22TPA, my frankentorque has 32TPA, and most Chinese "torque" motors have 16TPA (this includes matrix 3000, SHS, 5KU, Element, etc since they are all pretty much rebrands). To demonstrate the accuracy of this equation I'll give some examples of guns that I've built:

1. My current primary: 11.1V lipo, 10.44:1 gears, 32TPA motor.

(809.515*11.1)/(32*10.44)=27rps. Mine chromos at 23. The difference could be due to a variety of reasons, but I suspect it may have to do with my batteries being tiny 1000mah 25C sticks, or it could be that the relationship isn't perfectly linear so the constant is a little bit off when using a really low ratio gearset and really high TPA motor.

2. Old configuration: 11.1V lipo, 22TPA motor, 16:1 gears.

(809.515*11.1)/(22*16)=25.5rps. Audacity recording put this build at 26 rps, nearly perfect.

3. Friend's build: 11.1V Lipo, 18:1 gears, 22TPA motor.

(809.515*11.1)/(22*18)=22.7rps. This one does 24 rps according to my xcoretech chrono.


This may not be particularly helpful since we don't know the TPA of the Godzilla but hopefully it is of some use to you when selecting components.

Also, as I mentioned to others in my trigger response thread, I haven't used the ascu but I'd definitely say to wait for the spectre. The precocking in itself makes it worth it IMO and accounts for at least 50% of the response you see in my video. I think sometimes some of the official sellers on airsoftmechanics get them in batches so I'd say keep an eye out. Other than that I'd recommend you replace your piston with something like a lonex red or SHS full metal rack one. SHS has had QC issues so I'd be wary if I were you.

[Stinger]

I can vouch double for the Lonex Extreme Toughness (red) Piston.
I have one in my primary and one of my teammates is currently using one.

[Tank]

Well first, I'd like to thank you for taking the time to write up that wall of text! You did point out the one thing I was meaning to order but forgot, a new piston. Also, that equation is handy. Using that, and what the guy in that video "thinks" the Godzilla motor windings are 24 TPA, I would get the following:
(809.515*11.1)/(24*10.44)=35 RPS (possibly too dangerous?)

So maybe I should go with 13:1 instead.
(809.515*11.1)/(24*13)=28 RPS

I already planned on correcting AoE, reshimming, swiss cheesing, removing the head bearing, and radius the shell, along with a promy barrel and rhop.

So you think a full metal rack is necessary?

I know a lot of your trigger response can be accounted for with that fet. I don't want to sit on this gun until they are available though, so I'm going to build it with the ASCU first, then replace that with a Spectre when I can find one. I'm trying to get this done for the Grayling game in a couple weeks.

[Stinger]

In my experience, you don't NEED a full-metal rack. However, high-stress setups obviously need stronger parts.
If you can't get a full-metal rack, at least make sure that the plastic teeth are something strong like glass-filled nylon.

[ctres]

True but if you ever intend to have precocking enabled then you need it, otherwise the spring is fully compressed and the piston is only hanging on by a few plastic teeth which are pretty much guaranteed to break in only a short matter of time. The same thing could happen if you have lots of overspin, which you almost certainly will. I'd recommend a half rack for sure.