DMR upgrade questions

[Elvis]

Hello, I am looking to upgrade my gun to a DMR but have a few questions about the parts I will be using. My gun I will be upgrading will be a G&G raider (GR-15) XL. (Link to gun : www.evike.com/products/32878/) 


My top three priorities are a Tightbore, better bucking and a barrel extension.

Tightbore: www.evike.com/products/24375/

- I am looking at a 6.03 mm in diameter barrel, but would it be better to go smaller? Say a 6.01mm? I am also looking to upgrade the ROF for a fast three round burst.
- How much will this increase my FPS? I would like it to stay CQB friendly (~360)
- Anything else I should know?

Bucking : www.evike.com/products/28917/

- Will this bucking rip? I have heard they may break.
- Should I buy a better bucking or just a entirely new hop up system?
- Will this increase my FPS?
- Is there any other buckings  that work better in the same price range? Or will I even see a positive difference with this bucking vs stock bucking?
- Anything else I should know?  

Barrel extension : www.evike.com/products/30333/

- I don't really have any questions on this one but $30 seems a bit expensive for a hunk of metal that just sits there. If by any chance you know of a 150mm+ barrel extension (suppressor) under $30 I would love to hear about it.


My next priority is a better motor to increase the ROF (I want a fast 3 shot burst).

motor : www.evike.com/products/29144/

- I know nothing about motors, I noticed there are different types of them (short/long type), which one do I need? The one I have a link to is a long type I believe.
- How much will this increase my ROF? I am looking for a noticeable increase.
- Will this increase my trigger response?
- Will this damage my gear box in any way? I do not want it to damage it!
- Will this increase my FPS?
- Is there anything else I should be aware of?


My last item is a MOSFET, as I said previously I would like a 3 round burst.

MOSFET : www.airsoftgi.com/mobile/product_info.php?products_id=16004

- Does this come pre programmed or do I have to do it myself? 
- Is this just a plug in and go type thing? 
- Anything else I should know? 


Some general questions I have are :

- How to decrease my FPS to 360
- Are all of these parts compatible
- Will these wear my gearbox out faster 
- What gram bb's to be using in a DMR ( I use .25 currently) 
- Are any if the products shown not good quality and/ or and cheaper alternatives? Or maybe should I just spend some extra money on a better one? 
- Anything at all I am missing? Information, part, tips, anything. 


Thank you for your help, I appreciate it very much.

[inj]

Jul 10, 2014 16:22:18 GMT -5 Elvis said:

Hello, I am looking to upgrade my gun to a DMR but have a few questions about the parts I will be using. My gun I will be upgrading will be a G&G raider (GR-15) XL. (Link to gun : www.evike.com/products/32878/) 


My top three priorities are a Tightbore, better bucking and a barrel extension.

Tightbore: www.evike.com/products/24375/

- I am looking at a 6.03 mm in diameter barrel, but would it be better to go smaller? Say a 6.01mm? I am also looking to upgrade the ROF for a fast three round burst. Don't go lower than 6.03. And don't get any longer than 455mm. 455mm is considered by many to be the optimal barrel length, as the BB stabilizes then exits the barrel, rather than staying in for longer and having a greater change of being disrupted. That, and a standard gearbox can not properly volume anything over a 455mm barrel. Make sure you're using a full cylinder by the way. As for ROF, a high torque motor, low ratio gears, and a high output battery will get you there. If you don't want to go that far, a good motor and battery will help a lot. 
- How much will this increase my FPS? I would like it to stay CQB friendly (~360) Unless you're doing something seriously wrong, your velocity shouldn't be impacted. There may be a very slight increase due to the tighter bore, but it's really not a big difference. 
- Anything else I should know?

Bucking : www.evike.com/products/28917/

- Will this bucking rip? I have heard they may break.
- Should I buy a better bucking or just a entirely new hop up system? Yeah, get a better bucking. Get a lonex 70d or G&G green and flat hop. Or, if you want to go further, R-hop. 
- Will this increase my FPS? Once again, unless there's something wrong with the stock bucking, it shouldn't affect velocity much at all.
- Is there any other buckings  that work better in the same price range? Yes, see above. Or will I even see a positive difference with this bucking vs stock bucking? The stock bucking should be a G&G Green, so keep it. It's a great bucking. 
- Anything else I should know?  

Barrel extension : www.evike.com/products/30333/ 

- I don't really have any questions on this one but $30 seems a bit expensive for a hunk of metal that just sits there. If by any chance you know of a 150mm+ barrel extension (suppressor) under $30 I would love to hear about it.

There are a couple here: www.clandestineairsoft.com/external-parts-c-1_28/?zenid=fe2d4baa34606daf2cbeffc156cb6c45

That's a great website by the way. I order parts there all the time. Never had any issues. 

My next priority is a better motor to increase the ROF (I want a fast 3 shot burst).

motor : www.evike.com/products/29144/ They like to burn out. I'd go with a ZCI balance or old gen SHS high torque motor. Here:


www.brillarmory.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=39_65&products_id=188


- I know nothing about motors, I noticed there are different types of them (short/long type), which one do I need? The one I have a link to is a long type I believe. You would be correct. M4s and their varients take long type motors.
- How much will this increase my ROF? I am looking for a noticeable increase. From what I understand, the stock G&G motor is pretty crappy, so you should see a few rounds per second of an increase.
- Will this increase my trigger response? Yes, quite a bit.
- Will this damage my gear box in any way? I do not want it to damage it! It shouldn't if you're running on a 7.4v lipo or 9.6v NIMH. If you move up to an 11.1v lipo, It'd be a good idea to tune the gearbox if you haven't done it already. Shim, correct AOE, etc. 
- Will this increase my FPS? Nope
- Is there anything else I should be aware of?


My last item is a MOSFET, as I said previously I would like a 3 round burst. No experience here.

MOSFET : www.airsoftgi.com/mobile/product_info.php?products_id=16004

- Does this come pre programmed or do I have to do it myself? 
- Is this just a plug in and go type thing? 
- Anything else I should know? 


Some general questions I have are :

- How to decrease my FPS to 360 An M110 spring should put you there
- Are all of these parts compatible yes
- Will these wear my gearbox out faster Gearboxes don't "wear out". Certain parts can wear down, but in a whole, your gearbox should be fine for a while. I'd replace the piston and tune the gearbox, but it should hold up fine without it for a while. 
- What gram bb's to be using in a DMR ( I use .25 currently) See below
- Are any if the products shown not good quality and/ or and cheaper alternatives? Or maybe should I just spend some extra money on a better one? Actually, many of the products aren't the best and are overpriced. 
- Anything at all I am missing? Information, part, tips, anything. 


Thank you for your help, I appreciate it very much.

Thoughts up there ^^^^ In bold. 

What you're building is not a DMR. It's a CQB legal field rifle. DMRs are semi-locked, so no burst or full auto. DMRs need more parts replaced, and with different parts.

You can still get great range out of this, but it's not a DMR. It's a field rifle. As for BB weight, .25s will work fine. I personally don't go below .28s though.

[TheEnd]

So, to rant a little bit, an M4 with a long barrel and a suppressor built on a budget isn't really a DMR. I feel like the term DMR is being tossed around so loosely lately that it's just a buzz word for anything with a scope or a long barrel. A DMR is meant to notch in between rifleman and sniper. In airsoft terms that doesn't really work out the same but I like to think there is a place between a 400 fps full auto capable rifle and a 550fps bolt action rifle. DMR's should shoot somewhere around 450-475, shoot heavy ammo, and fire semi only. In airsoft FPS does not equal range, but a 450-475 fps rifle shooting .30's or better will be able to punch through vegetation easier and maintain a decent muzzle velocity so that targets at long range can't just step out of the way. An airsoft DMR should also be crafted, not pieced together. The last outdoor game I attended a player was using some form of M4 with a big ol' scope and a long suppressor. We were taking fire from a decent ways away. I didn't have zoom optics and I figured he could take a few of them out before we advanced. Nope. About 3 winds into his hi cap I realized that his "DMR" was probably just a stock AEG with a bunch of external crap to make it look like something it's not.

Point is, a long ass tight bore, big suppressor, and a scope don't make a DMR. You have to craft it. You need to test different buckings and bb's, you need to build the box with knowledge that your compression parts are working well together, your cylinder balance is correct, you need to spend time shooting it so you know how much scope hold over you need at what range. Just like sniping, being a designated marksman is more than sticking a scope on a rifle.

End rant.


At any rate, I'll give you my advice for what it's worth. First, read the DMR holy grail.

Second, you can't just drop a long barrel in your rifle. 509mm barrels require a solid cylinder with no vent. I'm not familiar with your rifle so it may already have one. If you put a 509mm barrel in with a standard M4 cylinder you will be under volumed and your rifle will shoot like shit. If you are serious about this being a DMR you will opening your gear box, so dropping a full cylinder in shouldn't be a problem. Just make sure it seals well with the piston head and cylinder head you will using.

Stick with 6.03, 6.01 in an AEG tends to be worse (in my experience). If you intend to stick with CQB FPS limits you will have a hard time making long range shots. Sure, 360 will lift a .30 with an R-hop. If the target happens to see it coming they can just duck or step aside. Slow BB's are bad for long range shots.

In my opinion Madbull barrels aren't very good. They are (were?) coated aluminum and the coating tends to cause very minor differences in diameter along the length of the barrel. My brother and I have about 5 or 6 scratched Black Python II barrels between us. I wash my BB's and use the higher end brands. Take it for what it's worth (I know some people swear by them) but I won't waste any more money on them. If you want DMR quality look at Prometheus EG and a good range of light polishing compounds. Tamiya makes a great set. A DMR needs a high quality barrel, if you scrimp on that why bother?

There is no "best bucking". Today it is even more difficult because of the R-hop. The R-hop separates the bucking and the friction surface. All of a sudden that King Arms Hard bucking I detested a few years ago is fantastic because the super hard rubber holds in so much pressure while the R-hop patch gives great range. Your choice of BB also matters. Some bb's stick to certain rubbers better. It's all trial and error. Prepare to buy 5-10 buckings, and the same for BB brands and weights, and go to town testing. For flat hops I have had good luck with Systema and Prometheus. From what I have heard, the Madbull shark buckings suck. I used a blue one briefly but was not impressed. Buckings won't increase your FPS unless you have a leak or if they are so hard they don't spin the BB.

As far as the hop up goes, if you want a true DMR, you will end up doing a TON of work in there. Metal isn't always better than plastic, a fixed arm is best (once you find the sweet spot combo), and try everything. I had a JG hop up unit that worked freaking awesome, and a G&P unit that sucked ass. There isn't much rhyme or reason. It's all about the barrel, bucking, chamber, and BB working together.

$30 isn't really that bad. If you want to pay less look used. I would recommend something more realistic looking, but that's just an opinion.

I'm not sure what your reason is for wanting 3 shot burst, but giving the standard AEG burst capability isn't really cheap or easy. The standard AEG has no way of telling what position the gear box is in. The sector gear has the cut off cam, but that is purely mechanical. One of the massive benefits of the Systema PTW is that it knows where the gears are using an optical sensor. What I'm getting at here is that a plug in type "burst unit" isn't a sure thing. Generally they use either a set amount of time per trigger pull, or they count the amp spikes of the motor. Neither of those actually tell it where the gears are. When one of my team mates owned a field, we picked up a few Burst Wizards to test out. I think we had 5 dead ones in a matter of weeks, and none of them actually worked well. Most notably they do not use a GATE switch, so it isn't actually a MOSFET at all. The trigger contacts still carry the current.

To be honest, I don't use many of the newer name brand upgrade parts. SHS, Lonex, Titan, and such all have motors out that I have never used. I highly recommend the JG Blue Neo motor. It's pretty much the only one I have used (somehow ended up with 15+ of them from my tech days) and they are reliable as hell. Many people "upgrade" their JG blues and discard them which makes them pretty cheap used. I also LOVED the performance of my G&P M120 high speeds and M160 torque motors, but the brushes burned up very quickly with Lipo use. If you want opinions on all the other motors someone else will have to chime in.

To decrease your FPS reduce your spring. I prefer PDI springs because they are short for their FPS. This means the piston doesn't slam quite as hard into the gear box shell when at rest. This also make it easier for the drivetrain to pull them back. I've had some that shot a level lower than they were supposed to so be aware of that possibility.

A true DMR should be tuned using a specific BB weight and brand. Figure out what your rifle likes and keep it fed. I wouldn't go any lighter than .30, but you might get by with .28's. Depends a lot on if you R-Hop or flat hop.



I don't mean this to sound condescending.It sounds like you are new to upgrading and I hope you continue to learn and become able to tech your own rifle. I'm just a little jaded after seeing so many kids stick a bi pod and a red dot on an M4 with a 700mm suppressor and call it a DMR. If you want to build a DMR, build a DMR. I just want to point out that just as an MP5K with a box mag isn't a support weapon, an M4 with a huge suppressor isn't a DMR.

Good luck with your build.

[inj]

^^^^That is a great write up. Listen to that man.

He gave advice for a true DMR, I gave advice for a nice field rifle, as that's what your goals looked like to me. Now you have to choose which one you want to build.

[Elvis]

Thank you a lot. Both of you. I knew before hand this would not make it a true DMR, this is merely my first step in that direction since I do not have a lot of funds for airsoft. I did not know the defintion of a dmr, so I guess my intentions for what I want to build is more like a hybrid of a AEG and a DMR, or field rifle if that is what it is called. I mostly play at kazoo so that's why I need a lower fps, but I will be checking out hells survivors soon. This is my first build so I am new to this stuff. Thanks for you help I apreciate it a lot. Also, Inj, that website has insanely good deals. I will defintley be buying from them. Thanks