simple internal parts that will increase trigger response?

[matthumphries71]

I have a g&g mk5a4 with the pneumatic blowback, i was wondering if there are any internal parts such as motors or gears that could improve my trigger response.  Also i run the gun with a 9.6v 1600mah battery so any help would be GREAT!

[ctres]

All internal parts other than computerized mosfets are simple on an individual basis. It is when you put them all together that things get complicated. First and foremost you need to realize that quicker trigger response means more wear on components so you have to compensate for that with parts that are durable enough and installed correctly. If you just want a list this is how I would prioritize it.
11.1V lipo with basic mosfet
High torque motor
High speed gears
Computerized mosfet with precocking

In theory none of those parts are hard to replace but there is a lot you need to keep in mind. AoE adjustment and shimming should be top priority when you start building a demanding setup.

[matthumphries71]

I play cqb mostly and this mk5 im trying to build internally needs to be able to pop off shots quickly, so good trigger response and fire rate is what im trying to achieve. If you could elaborate more itd be great because im a little lost

[Squirrel]

I have a G&G mp5a5. The stock motor seems fairly slow, like similar to the combat machine. I haven't wanted to open it up yet because it is shooting really nice right now. Running a 7.4v 25c LiPo did help a little bit with speed over a smaller 9.6v that I had.

If you can get a mosfet setup running good that is your best option. I've tried to help a member here with a mosfet setup, but it wasn't playing nice so he tabled the project for the time being. I'm sure there are some others here with better experiences setting them up correctly.

[MayhemXXXFrosty (AndrewMp5k)]

He listed the parts you will want to look into. Do you know how to work on your gearbox? In all honestly I hate* pneumatic blowbacks, just more moving parts to break. Though G&G's system seems to be the best for AEG style blowbacks.

Depending how good or great of response you want, depends how deep you need to dive. The basic parts that ctres listed is a great start. You should check out his thread on his current trigger response build. It's a good read and may answer some questions.

Basically it boils down to Battery, Motor, Gears and a REALLY good shimjob/AoE correction. You'll want a higher volt battery (most people are running 11.1v's these days, some run higher but 11.1v's are becoming the new 9.6v's). 11.1v Lipo's are comparable to 12.8v NiMh/NiCad's. The reason most people run with LiPo's (and why Squirrel saw a boost with a 7.4v LiPo over a 9.6v especially with the higher mAh) is because LiPo's maintain their power throughout their usage until they die unlike NiMh's and NiCads (It is very important however you never let a LiPo die, so picking up a low-voltage detector is critical to keeping your LiPo alive and working). When NiMh/NiCads start to die their power starts draining down and it's noticeable. With the boost in your battery power you'll want a Mosfet to keep your trigger contacts from frying or burning up. Though I haven't bought any from him, jonezy is usually referred around here for a good cheap basic mosfet (again you can get different types of mosfets like computerized ones that let you set shots per trigger pull and ect., but they are costly).

Now since you've upgraded your Battery for more juice, you need a motor that can use every drop your battery is supplying. This is where a new High-Torque motor will come into play. Your stock G&G motor doesn't use a Neo-Magnet, meaning it has a lower capacity point to an extent. Upgrading to a High-Torque motor with a Neo-Magnet will allow you to better use your battery's potential to it's fullest. For most people you can pretty much stop there and you'll be okay. With the new speed you may have to shave a tooth or two off the front of your piston which has been termed "short stroking your piston" because if the build is too fast the gears may overspin and after a shot may already have your piston partially racked back. This will cause your next shot to be subpar (ballpark of ~200fps depending, basically a lot lower then usual) or if the build is fast enough cause a double shot in semi. You'll see significant increase in trigger response with those few upgrades though. If it's still not adequate though, you can go with High-Speed gears (somewhere in the ballpark of 13:1's though 16:1's are fine). Most companies use 18:1 or 20:1's for their standard builds as an FYI. If you're feeling dicey enough you can get the SiegeTek 10.5:1's. The 10.5's require a lot more precision work and tech'ing then most are willing to put forward though.

It just really depends on how involved you want to get with it. So to repeat basically what ctres said;

Shimjob/AoE
11.1v LiPo + Mosfet
High-Torque Motor
High Speed Gears (if not fast enough with first 3-4 parts)

[matthumphries71]

Mayhemxxxfrosty, i seriously appreciate that post! u really covered all bases for me, also one final question. Ive never opened up a gearbox for fear of breaking something badly, so a motor change would be best for me. Im planning on buying a new motor and a LIpo battery, would i NEED to go inside the gearbox at all or could i just do the motor swap??

[T6e9a]

For your gearbox to properly be tuned and ready for a higher torque motor and a lipo, it would be be best to have it shimmed, greased and the AoE corrected, and the proper teeth removed from the piston. Otherwise, your gearbox stands a great chance to strip the piston, and cause other internal demise.

[MayhemXXXFrosty (AndrewMp5k)]

Feb 2, 2014 0:08:08 GMT -5 matthumphries71 said:

Mayhemxxxfrosty, i seriously appreciate that post! u really covered all bases for me, also one final question. Ive never opened up a gearbox for fear of breaking something badly, so a motor change would be best for me. Im planning on buying a new motor and a LIpo battery, would i NEED to go inside the gearbox at all or could i just do the motor swap??

What T6e9a said. You could just do the motor swap and LiPo upgrade, but it won't last without opening the gearbox up. If you're not confident with opening your gearbox, there are a few people on here that you can send it to to do the work. T6e9a does techwork for people, at least last I knew he did. With anything else, the more demand you want out of your setup, the more precise things need to be.

A stock G&G gearbox on a 9.6v has a decent amount of slop that they can get away with at the factory. When you want things to run faster and put more demand/stress on the gearbox. That big slop gap then starts to shrink. A good shimjob can actually increase your trigger response depending how bad it was to begin with (not majorly and not in all cases, but I have redone gearboxes and seen a 2-4RPS jump). If your gearbox is turning like butter, it helps increase part longevity. Also like I said earlier, with a new High Torque motor and an 11.1v battery you will most likely see overspin. You can get a Mosfet that has [active braking?] that can stop that, but since you need to solder it into your wiring harness you'd still need to open up your gearbox.

[Zorak]

Feb 2, 2014 0:08:08 GMT -5 matthumphries71 said:

Mayhemxxxfrosty, i seriously appreciate that post! u really covered all bases for me, also one final question. Ive never opened up a gearbox for fear of breaking something badly, so a motor change would be best for me. Im planning on buying a new motor and a LIpo battery, would i NEED to go inside the gearbox at all or could i just do the motor swap??

Feb 17, 2003 23:05:01 GMT -5 Hadoken said:

7 - Please use proper spelling, capitalization, grammar, and punctuation. Not only will you get your message across much clearer, but other forum members might actually be able to reply to your post instead of trying to decipher your enigmatic nonsense.

matthumphries71, please locate your shift and apostrophe keys, and understand that "u" is not a word. You might want to review the other forum rules while you're at it.

[matthumphries71]

Zorak, it was a simple mistake. Did not mean to offend you or anything but your reply seems a little rude over a grammar error. And mayhem do you know any other reliable guys on this forum that do tech work?

[Snarf]

Not to hijack the thread or anything, but I have a couple of relevant questions about Lipo (11.1v) upgrading.

1. The piston: If I have a stock plastic piston (with plastic teeth) do I need to get a new piston with metal teeth if I upgrade to a lipo? I'm just afraid that the extra speed and power will tear off a tooth or so, which could damage the rest of the gearbox.

2. Sector gear clip: I know they're for fixing feeding issues, but on an 11.1v will I be hitting a high enough rps to need that part? Assuming that I'm using good quality mid caps, of course (and standard ratio gears with a stock motor).

[MayhemXXXFrosty (AndrewMp5k)]

Feb 2, 2014 13:02:26 GMT -5 matthumphries71 said:

Zorak, it was a simple mistake. Did not mean to offend you or anything but your reply seems a little rude over a grammar error. And mayhem do you know any other reliable guys on this forum that do tech work?

I know a few guys do it on here, I do my own so I don't follow who's doing what now-a-days. I know a few have tech work offered in their commerce posts. I'd stalk around in there or make a commerce post LF (looking for) tech work for a V2 G&G (Mp5) gearbox.

Feb 2, 2014 13:46:55 GMT -5 Snarf said:

Not to hijack the thread or anything, but I have a couple of relevant questions about Lipo (11.1v) upgrading.

1. The piston: If I have a stock plastic piston (with plastic teeth) do I need to get a new piston with metal teeth if I upgrade to a lipo? I'm just afraid that the extra speed and power will tear off a tooth or so, which could damage the rest of the gearbox.

2. Sector gear clip: I know they're for fixing feeding issues, but on an 11.1v will I be hitting a high enough rps to need that part? Assuming that I'm using good quality mid caps, of course (and standard ratio gears with a stock motor).

#1 does not require you to upgrade to a metal tooth piston. It's just better for most beginners because you have a tad more leniency on "slop". Most high RPS builds utilize polymer tooth pistons because of the weight reduction vs. metal tooth pistons. It's all in your shim job and AOE correction and making sure everything flows like butter.

For #2 don't remove your sector gear clip. On a stock motor/gears you will need it. Upgrading to an 11.1v with a stock motor won't be much beneficial anyhow. Get a neo-magnet motor at least otherwise upgrading to an 11.1v is (at least in my eyes) pretty useless. I say this because most stock motors can not handle an 11.1v. Usually energy is wasted or dumped and ends burning something up quicker from the excess of energy (seen stock motors fry and the like). Also you'll want a mosfet to protect your wiring harness from the 11.1v. Otherwise you're going to have to replace your wiring harness a lot quicker.

[Snarf]

Ok well if I get a high torque motor then trigger response will definitely increase, but what about the overall ROF? Don't torque motors spin slower than normal ones? I don't really care about ROF, but hypothetically to fix that I would just go to higher speed gears, right?

[T6e9a]

From what Info I have accumulated, "high speed" motors take longer to get to a high speed than do "high torque" motors. High torque motors accelerate faster, generally leading to better trigger response.

But as for extended full auto, and motor running, I do believe high torque motors can be comparatively slower.

I could be wrong on such info, or not completely correct, but I believe that might be a decent summary.

[ctres]

Both speed and torque of a motor depend on two main things:
1. Magnet strength
2. Number of windings/turns per armature

Since most stock motors and even some so called "upgrade" motors use ferrite magnets whereas good motors us neo magnets which are way stronger, it is hard to make a general rule for all motors but I can try to explain to the best of my understanding.

The general rule is that more turns (tpa) means more torque and less speed while the opposite is true for less turns. However it gets messy when you start trying to compare between neo and ferrite magnets. For example a high torque ferrite motor has weak magnets so it needs lots of turns to get high torque which means it's really really slow(think dboys/cyma stock motors that are pulling m120 springs on mini 1100mah 8.4V nimh batteries. Those motors have 28-32 tpa). On the other hand a neo magnet motor needs way less turns to get the same torque since its magnets are way way stronger (if you can't stick together multiples of your motor and hang them vertically from a hammer you are missing out) so something like an SHS/matrix/whatever-else-rebrand-name that has neo magnets only needs 16 tpa to get the same torque as a stock dboys motor but since it has way less turns it is much faster. The same is true for speed motor. IIRC a G&P 120 has like 12tpa meaning it's blazing fast but has no torque and will burn out if you run it with a stronger spring since it has so little torque due to the ferrite magnets. A neo magnet speed motor with the same tpa would run just as fast but have much more torque.

In general since the torque motors nowadays with neo magnets are plenty fast most people prefer a torque motor since they are more efficient and give better trigger response since they don't take too long to speed up. High speed gears are also used to increase speed and improve response. I personally prefer a super torquey motor and high speed gears for the best response.