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Post by Alex-(BM_5) on Dec 3, 2011 12:34:35 GMT -5
Ok so I have been looking at getting a m14 for a while now. As much as I wish I could get the TM I just can't afford it at the moment.
So I wanted to know if the G&G was comparable to the TM. I remember reading somewhere on this forum that the G&G's gearbox was not the most user friendly.
So basically the question is, is the G&G worth the extra money or am I better off getting the CYMA and spending the money I would've on upgrades?
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Post by Gunny87 on Dec 3, 2011 15:29:35 GMT -5
If the search function on here wasn't the worst search function I've ever used out of any forum or site, I'd try and give you some actual results however look back in some of the AEG and Technical Question sections because there are some great threads with very in depth information that has been provided by TheEnd and other members on here including myself.
There is also a ton of other information on comparing the TM & G&G M14 that you can probably access from a Google search over on Arnie's, ASF, etc.
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Post by Alex-(BM_5) on Dec 3, 2011 15:36:53 GMT -5
Yea I've looked around I just get a lot more mixed results and I know at least a few people on here have an m14. Also Ive been looking for TheEnds threads dealing with his m14 but I haven't found it.
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Post by Knief on Dec 3, 2011 20:34:45 GMT -5
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Post by Alex-(BM_5) on Dec 4, 2011 1:10:27 GMT -5
Thanks knief I remember that exact thread.
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Post by TheEnd on Dec 4, 2011 18:11:56 GMT -5
I had a G&G SOC16 that wasn't very old. I know it wasn't the original version, but I don't know what version it was.
It's not that the G&G M14 gear box is bad, it's just more complicated than it needs to be. The fire selector is a 5 or 6 piece assembly that acts as a spring release, anti reversal latch, and cut off lever. Why they wanted to combine all of that into one assembly is beyond me. Much like the TM's yaw bar, the G&G external cutoff arm is put under a bit of stress, and when it wears down it will cause cycling issues. I thought this was the issue with mine, but after replacing the cut off arm mine continued to have cycling issues.
The G&G M14 has a flexible motor housing that allows the motor to pivot up and down. It drove me crazy. Using an AB mosfet in semi auto caused the motor to stop as it should, and the complicated fire selector/ spring release/anti reversal latch would not catch right away, and the gears would wind back. This would flick the motor up and cause it to bounce. Here I'm trying to build an accurate semi auto rifle and my motor won't stop bouncing between shots. Normally I don't use AB as it burns up the motor, but on a semi-only build it's worth it for the shot to shot volume accuracy.
G&G pistons are pretty weak. I shredded two of them using an 11.1v 25C lipo in semi-auto. They were both AOE corrected, and the back tooth ripped right off.
I prefer the G&G/CA design over the TM. The G&G/CA design bolts the hop up directly to the gear box in a way that it can't move at all. Obviously this is great for 500+ fps builds. The G&G/CA M14 also uses an AUG style hop up which is a great design and is also known for it's long range ability. I prefer the CA over the G&G because CA used the G&G gear box design and AUG type hop up, but adapted the TM fire selector and anti reversal latch to it.
I've heard from many sources that the newest G&G M14 has all the bugs worked out. Many people on Airsoft forums and the Airsoft sniper forums recommend the G&G. It still has the over complicated design, but it works. I'll stick with the CA because I prefer to have the fire selector, anti reversal latch, and cut off lever as separate systems.
The G&G M14 isn't a bad rifle, if it interests you pick it up.
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Post by Alex-(BM_5) on Dec 4, 2011 22:07:16 GMT -5
So it comes down to this, is it worth it to buy the G&G or just buy a CYMA and upgrade it extensively?
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Post by TheEnd on Dec 4, 2011 22:52:45 GMT -5
What do you plan to build it into? Do you have a range or FPS goal? Are you on a tight budget? Can you work on your own gear box?
Knowing nothing of your goals I would rather have the G&G over the CYMA. The G&G will be more reliable right out of the box, and will most likely perform better. I also like the externals of the G&G over the externals of the CYMA. The CYMA stock feels toy like.
The CYMA M14's I've worked on haven't been very impressive internally. They can be built into good performers, but that requires work, and money. The CYMA also takes the proprietary V7 parts and proprietary TM M14 barrel. While this isn't a huge issue it means you will need to buy specific parts that you may have to buy from different sources, including over seas suppliers. This means more shipping costs. It also means you might have to pay $30+ to ship one item. I haven't researched V7 parts in a very long time so I'm not sure how available they are stateside so this may be a moot point.
For my money, G&G M14 over the CYMA. That may be different depending on your goals and budget.
EDIT: The G&G also has proprietary mags that are harder to find than the TM and clones.
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Post by Alex-(BM_5) on Dec 4, 2011 22:57:01 GMT -5
Range is what I'm looking for (what's the point of being a marksman with no range) as for my budget I'm trying to keep it under $300 for the moment (excluding mags). I guess I could learn to do my own work :/.
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Post by TheEnd on Dec 4, 2011 23:25:13 GMT -5
It sounds like you want to build a DMR (it's the hottest craze) but you don't want to spend a lot of money. To put it bluntly, it doesn't work that way. If you can't do your own work finding someone who will build you a true DMR or SASS will be difficult if not impossible, and very expensive.
For the record, long rifle + tight bore + 400fps spring does not = DMR.
I'm not trying to be a dick, just giving you an honest answer. Dropping in parts will not give you the same accuracy as tuning them. I haven't seen anyone who will tune parts as a service yet. The profit margin just isn't there. I actually think I would lose money doing something like that. If you can find someone out there who does it it will be expensive, especially on the M14.
If you are looking for the best out of the box performance go with the G&G. It is also easier to upgrade the G&G because it uses common V2/V3 parts in most places. Be aware though that the mags are proprietary and can be difficult to find and expensive. In the long run the G&G will perform better for you while you save up for future upgrades. You can also use that time to learn how to work on your own stuff. I would not recommend the G&G M14 gear box as your first one though.
If you are on a super tight budget and just have to have an M14 go with the CYMA. Just keep in mind the CYMA will probably cost more when your done with it, and won't shoot as well until then.
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Post by Alex-(BM_5) on Dec 4, 2011 23:28:54 GMT -5
Thanks I totally understand what your saying, I didn't know if DMR's followed the same rule as bolt actions (budget wise).
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Post by TheEnd on Dec 4, 2011 23:47:23 GMT -5
True DMR and SASS rifles cost a lot. More importantly, they require a lot of fine tuning. Mirror polishing the cylinder, AOE correction, cylinder and barrel volume balancing, custom or semi-custom nubs, custom or modified hop up arms, tappet plate shaving, shaved buckings, expensive barrels, polishing of the barrel...a lot of custom work. Building true DMR and SASS rifles is my personal passion. If you can't do your own work, it's just not going to happen.
People dropping in parts and calling their rifle a DMR are just happy to use the DMR buzzword. Lately taking a long rifle and putting in a tight bore and 400 fps spring and calling it a DMR is all the rage. I've seen G36C's and P90's called DMR's. It's out of hand.
Don't let that prevent you from getting an M14. There is nothing wrong with running an M14 and playing as a marksman. It's actually really fun. Just understand that at that point you don't have a true DMR. If you put in the effort to tune the hop up (the AUG hop up in the G&G is super easy) you can get very good accuracy. The G&G is commonly stated to have very good accuracy right out of the box, and will probably do exactly what you want it to.
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Post by Alex-(BM_5) on Dec 4, 2011 23:55:25 GMT -5
Well that's good to know and I have also noticed people calling their 400 fps + gun a dmr.
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Spear
New Member
Posts: 307
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Post by Spear on Dec 5, 2011 12:56:09 GMT -5
Lets put it this way. I've got a CYMA M14 that I've been trying to tune into a DMR. It's got well over $400 in upgrades, and it's still not really one.
Pretty much everything TheEnd said is right. A TRUE DMR takes a lot of time, effort, and work that most people aren't willing, or just don't know how to do.
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Post by Gunny87 on Dec 5, 2011 15:42:02 GMT -5
Agreed with what TheEnd said. Even more importantly if you do have a real DMR then the way you play is also vastly different than playing a standard rifleman's role. Especially in airsoft, when it's easy for everyone to just run around and shoot people, and not stick to any dedicated role. The Aug style metal hop up that's in the G&G is one of the best hop ups (next to a TM Aug hop up unit) that I've ever used. There's a reason why there actually is a G&G Metal M14 (Aug) hop up unit in my Classic Army Aug...  |
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