GBB Rifles

[natebrann]

So, I'm in the market for a new rifle. I've been doing a lot of research. I really want to go with a GBB rifle but it seems in a battle environment that it would cause me more trouble then a AEG would, smaller mag capacity, and power inconsistency seem to be the biggest issues, but the look, feel, and sound is so much cooler then a AEG.

Cost is not really an issue for me, so im not worried about that. But since most of you guys have way more battlefield experience then me i was just wondering if you think its worth it to take a GBB over a AEG.

Maybe i should buy a GBB and a AEG and just switch off to the AEG if the GBB is giving me to much trouble?

[Andrew]

Get one, they are awesome. I just bought a KJW m4 and I will never go back to an AEG. Not to mention GBBr are way easier to work on.

[TheEnd]

I personally would suggest owning at least one AEG.

The biggest downfall I've found with my WE 416 is mag capacity and cost. I love the realism that GBBR's give, but 30 rounds go fast when three people are spraying at you with hi-caps. I love a good fire fight but when you have 30 rounds and most everyone else has 120+ it makes EVERY fire fight seem like you are against a SAW. At first it was fun for me but after spending most of the day trying to conserve ammo it was pretty boring.

I carry 16 mid caps when I play outdoors with my M4 AEG. 6 120rd and 10 75rd for a total of 1470 rounds. Now lets say I carry 16 GBBR mags ($800 new before shipping) I will have 480 rounds total. That's a pretty big disadvantage. Most new players will probably buy a MAG box set of 8 130 round mid caps (which costs about the same as one GBBR mag). That's still 1040 rounds.

The reason I still don't think GBBR's can compete in-game with an AEG is this:

1 decently reliable GBBR with 16 mags (480 rounds) = $1,200+

1 JG AK47 with one hi-cap (450 rounds) = $130

Now we all know the kid with the AK is going to spray like crazy, he has a hi-cap. Chances are the guy with the GBBR is going to get pinned and someone can flank him. This isn't an example that will happen every time, and each side will have a team to help out but I would put my money on the GBBR guy getting hosed.

Now for CQB, GBBR will be fine. You will be at an ammo disadvantage but in CQB it isn't as bad because games are shorter and a sidearm can be used as a primary if needed. Plenty of people play CQB with just a GBB pistol and do fine.

The bottom line is that you need to be aware of the disadvantage you will have. I'm sure some people prefer it and have found ways to make it work for them. I'm not here to argue if it's possible. I'm only saying that before you go and spend $500-600 on a GBBR set up you should seriously think about the possible issues. While AEG's may not be as cool or fun as a GBBR they have many advantages that make them easy and effective to use.

[Dahm]

Feb 1, 2011 13:11:06 GMT -5 TheEnd said:

I personally would suggest owning at least one AEG.

The biggest downfall I've found with my WE 416 is mag capacity and cost. I love the realism that GBBR's give, but 30 rounds go fast when three people are spraying at you with hi-caps. I love a good fire fight but when you have 30 rounds and most everyone else has 120+ it makes EVERY fire fight seem like you are against a SAW. At first it was fun for me but after spending most of the day trying to conserve ammo it was pretty boring.

I carry 16 mid caps when I play outdoors with my M4 AEG. 6 120rd and 10 75rd for a total of 1470 rounds. Now lets say I carry 16 GBBR mags ($800 new before shipping) I will have 480 rounds total. That's a pretty big disadvantage. Most new players will probably buy a MAG box set of 8 130 round mid caps (which costs about the same as one GBBR mag). That's still 1040 rounds.

The reason I still don't think GBBR's can compete in-game with an AEG is this:

1 decently reliable GBBR with 16 mags (480 rounds) = $1,200+

1 JG AK47 with one hi-cap (450 rounds) = $130

Now we all know the kid with the AK is going to spray like crazy, he has a hi-cap. Chances are the guy with the GBBR is going to get pinned and someone can flank him. This isn't an example that will happen every time, and each side will have a team to help out but I would put my money on the GBBR guy getting hosed.

Now for CQB, GBBR will be fine. You will be at an ammo disadvantage but in CQB it isn't as bad because games are shorter and a sidearm can be used as a primary if needed. Plenty of people play CQB with just a GBB pistol and do fine.

The bottom line is that you need to be aware of the disadvantage you will have. I'm sure some people prefer it and have found ways to make it work for them. I'm not here to argue if it's possible. I'm only saying that before you go and spend $500-600 on a GBBR set up you should seriously think about the possible issues. While AEG's may not be as cool or fun as a GBBR they have many advantages that make them easy and effective to use.

I'm sorry, but trying to compare a "decently reliable" GBBR with a JG clone is a terrible comparison - not to mention completely one sided and unfair.

If you're going to compare a reliable AEG to a reliable GBBR, try to compare the cost of a KJW m4 GBBR + mags to a G&G or G&P M4 + a pack of MAG midcaps (sorry, highcaps are unreliable too)

If you're going to make a point, its better to be fair about the comparison. A reliable G&G these days retails for $400, and mags will run you another $50-$60. Not to mention having 3 good batteries will run you another $75, and a good smart charger ($50).

A good AEG set up will run you a little under $600, and $600 will get you pretty far with a GBBR. That leaves you about $230 for mags, which will buy you about 6-7 mags. While this doesn't get you quite as much as an AEG, its definitely enough to last you a match.

Also, with a GBBR you can easily change your FPS to go from DMR to CQB in a matter of seconds or minutes. This can be a huge advantage over buying springs and opening your gearbox - sometimes paying others to do the work for you.

Also batteries. They die. Gas is cheap and an keep on flowing from those large 4 packs of propane. This is a huge cost saver. You need to bring at least 2-3 batteries to a game because they do die. Charging them takes at least 2 - 4 hours, which can mean the rest of your day at the game.

I think if you take a closer look, there are a lot disadvantages to AEG than you've failed to see.

EDIT: Edited to improve points and grammar.

[triggs]

Let's face it GBBR's are fragile. They are great fun to use, they sound awesome and are more realistic than an AEG. However, they are also much more fragile.
There are 3 basic GBBR designs:
Tanio Koba KJW: Probably the better of the 3 but parts are slim, mostly replacement OEM parts are the only parts available. Prices are decent around $400, but parts are hard to come by.
WE (WETTI): WE is slowly making changes and becoming a higher quality ocmpany, however their replicas are probably the lowest in quality. Replacement parts are OEM only, there are only a few non-OEM replacements available if anything breaks. The worst part about WE is the rubber seals are cheap and develop leaks very quickly. The rifles are cheap ($200+) but are the lowest quality of the 3.
WA (Western Arms): Probably the oldest of the 3 designs, therefore it has the most aftermarket parts available. They are also the most realistic of the 3 designs, but also the weakest, with a lot of problems keeping them in working condition. Be prepared to spend upwards of $1000+ to keep it functioning

AEG's on the other hand have many parts/replacement parts available. Between the GBBR and AEG, AEG's are much more dependable. The only time you should consider a GBBR is if money is no option and you want to look cool walking back to respawn or your car when it breaks and you can't repair it.

EDIT: Sorry dahm, AEG's are at least easier to get parts for when they break

[TheEnd]

Feb 1, 2011 14:40:25 GMT -5 Dahm said:

If you're going to make a point, its better to be fair about the comparison.

I wasn't trying to be fair because his engagements won't be fair. I'm stating that anyone with a cheap AEG and a hi-cap carries almost the exact same amount of ammo on the field as the theoretical GBBR user does. The largest difference is in the cost. I know he said cost wasn't important but if he spends $1000+ and spends most of his day in re spawn because kids with $130 AEG's keep landing the hits it could be depressing. I'm stating that if he expects to take a stock GBBR with one or two mags on the field he will have a very hard time against others with lesser platforms.

I wasn't comparing a reliable AEG to a reliable GBBR because there are far too many variables for me to want to get into. I was comparing his rifle choice of platform against the choice of others.

I have sunk nearly $1,000 into my SL9. It has 17 round mags and I like the realism it brings. If I happen to be spotted by even a couple people with 130rd mid caps it means I could have 260 rounds flying at me while I can only return 17. Does that stop me from using it? No. It means I have to change my play style to work to it's main advantage, long range accuracy. Now I don't know or will pretend to know the OP's mindset. If he were to sink $1,000 + in a GBBR setup and constantly face people who have many more rounds than he does it might disappoint him to the point of selling it or not playing. The point I was bringing up is simply the odds are stacked against him and he needs to understand that before he spends his money.

As for the batteries vs. gas and such, like I said those are things everyone should decide on through research. I only use lipo batteries and can go a whole day on one 1200 mah 20C pack. Gas mags can leak and require more maintenance than my batteries. This is why I didn't get into the benefits and drawbacks of GBBR vs. AEG. It depends on SO many things. Does the user want to go lipo? Will they keep the mags lubed so they don't leak? Does he enjoy working on his rifle? Too many variables for me to begin to suggest one over the other.

My only argument was that the limited capacity is something he should seriously think about. Much the way someone needs to think about a bolt action as a primary due to it's drawbacks.

[Dahm]

I have to disagree with you triggs. KJW M4's have a growing parts market and replacement parts are very easy. Anyone who has picked up my KJW will also disagree with you when you say the are fragile. In fact, a GBBR is MUCH simpler internally than an AEG so your argument seems to fail right there.

Yes, there are more replacement parts for AEG's, however might that be because they need their parts replaced more often? Now I know there are some HUGE losers in the GBBR market, such as WA WOC's, and WE GBBR's in general up until recently. However KJW, Inokatsu, Tanio Koba, just to name a few have great systems (their costs vary greatly).

About the expanding market for GBBR parts... Travis Humble of Cradle Airsoft is fronting a large push for parts for the KJW m4. He won't be the only one for long. Also, for WA WOC's there is a huge market for aftermarket parts as well.

Its sometimes easy to say AEG's are the obvious choice and in many instances there are. However I feel that a lot of times on this forum, people don't give GBBR's a chance.

[triggs]

I think we can agree to disagree on that one.

I'm not saying KJW is fragile, KJW is worlds ahead of WE, and I'd almost take a KJW over a WA if it wasn't for the larger number of parts (for specific builds I want) for the WA design. Between the 3 I'd say WA is probably the most fragile of the bunch internally.

I wouldn't agree with replacing more often, it entirely depends on how you treat the rifle. It's also safe to say, anything will break as long as it's used. Things don't break hanging on a wall, but they sure do on the field. There are 3 designs though, WE, KJW, WA/INO/JG/WELL/AGM/G&P/Viper.

I'm well aware of the aftermarket parts for any of the 3 GBBR designs. I'm very pleased to see T-Hum developing the stuff for KJW, and I'm keeping an eye on him to develop the parts I want. Western Arms certainly has the largest market of parts, but I know they're also the most finiky of the 3 the keep working.

It's easy, and for the most part it's kinda true. I just had a WE SCAR-L for a bit, and it's a fun rifle to use. But the mags were utter trash, and I wasn't particularly pleased with the overall rifle quality. Sadly the open bolt kit just came out so I wasn't able to try it. I've shot KJW's and a number of G&P WOC's and they're definitely fun don't get me wrong. The WA's I've never seen leave staging (they break), the KJW's are easily the most impressive and I've seen them go all day. The WE's work, but with their quality I'd never actually recommend them.

Part of the reason GBB's aren't popular here is the MI weather, cold season doesn't do well for them, the KJW's seem to handle the cold the best of the 3, but it's still kinda a higher risk in some ways.

[Thor]

After talking to Dahm at Arctic Squall, a GBBR that uses the same system as the KJW would be the only GBBR that I would ever consider buying again. I had owned a WA-system clone, and any gun based off that system is a money pit, plain and simple.

Had KJW released theirs first, I firmly believe they would have cornered the market early on. The WA-style guns just don't compare.

Also, I don't see the ammo capacity as a disadvantage. It forces the user to be more careful and precise with his shots, unlike the kid with a JG that can just sit there and hose with his hi-cap.

If you really want a GBBR, go with a KJW. If you were even thinking about any other brand, don't.

[Fubar65]

I've owned GBBR's from all of the major GBBR companies, needless to say I am moving back to AEG's. Yes the GBBR's are fun to shoot, but I just find them too finicky. That, coupled with the fact my KJW m4 broke the tabs on the upper receiver from just normal use really turned me off. The realism and blowback is great, but when I can't hit what I am shooting at because of the power fluctuations, it makes the game now fun. I am all for realism, this is why I use real cap mags and mainly use semi-auto, however, I just can't justify to myself buying another GBBR. The other thing is the mags, my KJW mags were great, my WA mags were crap, and my current WE mags work great minus the small leak they get from time to time which is easily remedied by tightening a screw.

Ultimately, the choice is yours, but make sure you start out with something high-end because getting a JG or AGM GBBR is just asking for a headache.

[drunkonunleaded]

My question is when does it take HOURS for a battery to charge? Outide of li-pos which should never be charged at anything over 1C, good quality Nimh cells can be charged @ Nearly 2c without any negative effects. Granted, you have to own a good peak charger for this, but can result in charge times of 30-40 mins.

Secondly, how reliable are GBBRs in cold weather?

[Dahm]

Feb 1, 2011 16:23:04 GMT -5 drunkonunleaded said:

My question is when does it take HOURS for a battery to charge? Outide of li-pos which should never be charged at anything over 1C, good quality Nimh cells can be charged @ Nearly 2c without any negative effects. Granted, you have to own a good peak charger for this, but can result in charge times of 30-40 mins.

Secondly, how reliable are GBBRs in cold weather?

Well, when you use high capacity batteries, they sure do take hours to charge, especially if you're not using a $100 smart charger.

Also, my KJW was really great in the cold this weekend. I could expel all my bb's easily. It was a little slow to cycle. The only problems it suffered from were ones that AEG's suffered from like freezing hop ups reducing accuracy.

[TheEnd]

Feb 1, 2011 16:03:33 GMT -5 Thor said:

Also, I don't see the ammo capacity as a disadvantage. It forces the user to be more careful and precise with his shots, unlike the kid with a JG that can just sit there and hose with his hi-cap.

But he might. Careful and precise might not be his game. He needs to decide if he can play that way. That's all I'm trying to say.

[soldierofvalor]

I might point out that the purpose and fun in a GBBR is to be realistic and challenging. Facing three players with 150rnd mid caps with a 30rnd GBBR is a blast for me

[Thor]

Soldierofvalor, please don't post on threads older than two weeks.