SAW Gunner Rules

[airsoftmarine7]

Ok, so one of my friends has an older brother in the Marines who is an M240 gunner. He said that his brother said the they are coming out with a new SAW in the USMC. After looking it up I came across the M27 IAR. It's basically an H&K 416 designed to for sustained auto fire. It fires from the closed breach but when the barrel starts getting hot it switches over to the open breach to prevent the bullets from cooking off. They are being planed for a 2-1 replacement for 2000 M249 SAWs.

If I'm right the MIA SAW rules for non rec games are 2400 rounds in any configuration, no assault rifles with box mags, it has to be an actual SAW gun. If that's so then should it also now (due to the M27) be allowed for someone to have an 416 with larger than rifleman but smaller than SAW capacity? Maybe say limit 1600 rounds in midcaps for IARs?

Just been wondering about this for awhile now and finally decided to post.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M27_Infantry_Automatic_Rifle

[Gunny87]

Well even though the M27 IAR is going to be a legitimate support weapon in reality, most airsoft event hosts (for MILSIM events) probably won't let you just walk on the field with a normal HK 416 replica and a box mag, or like 10 high caps...

You'll have to make your 416 look like a real IAR. Which from what I can see that means possibly changing the grip and switching to a longer outer barrel & RIS.

Hopefully Canto, and other mods and event hosts can give you a better answer than I can.

[cqbr]

I'd agree with gunny.

Unless your willing to put the work into converting your run of the mill 416 into a IAR replica, I know I wouldn't be happy about you walking into a MilSim or mag-restricted game with a box mag thinking your using an IAR.

[airsoftmarine7]

Well, that's why I said 1600 rounds in midcaps, also the IAR is ment to be magazine fed, not box. Besides, it would be kinda unfair for SAW gunners to have to carry around their heavy stuff when some else is their doing it with something half the size and weight. I didn't see anything in the looks department but if it is changed then the airsoft one would have to be up to par.

[Gunny87]

I think the easiest answer for your question would be if you converted your HK 416 into an "legitimate looking" IAR (changing the padded pistol grip to the elongated grip, & changing to a longer outer barrel and RIS) then your gun would fall under the same category as a support gun, and LMG (RPK, L86, MG36, etc) which would allow you the same ammo carrying capacities of a SAW gunner.

[a1 (Babez)]

Looks like you standard run-of-the-mill 416, except the pistol grip and extended barrel. You could get away with slapping some flip-up sights and a box mag on there, but more people would have to be aware of the M27.

[Kilo Oscar Tango]

Many have postulated the IAR is actually just a ploy to slowly get fully automatic rifles back into the hands of Marines because it's almost impossible to get out of FN's contracts and Congress doesn't see any advantages to fully automatic fire in the hands of a trained rifleman. They aren't replacing all their current issue SAWs and will still be using M240s and M249s for a long time to come.

Although 150 round "beta-style" magazines are in development, first Gen IARs will just use standard 30 round magazines.

So basically, the IAR isn't really a SAW at all.

[triggs]

As an event host I wouldn't let a HK416 with a box mag (or ridiculous amount of hi-caps) on the field at a MILSIM event.

Most MILSIM events however will allow any SAW type weapon (M249, M60, etc.) with the additional MG36, M27 as long as they are accurate portrayals of the actual gun. i.e not a G36c with a drum mag slapped in it, not a HK416 with a box mag etc.

If you want a field allowed imitation SAW it needs to be an accurate (or mostly accurate) replica.

[Gunny87]

Aug 18, 2010 20:10:38 GMT -5 Kilo Oscar Tango said:

Many have postulated the IAR is actually just a ploy to slowly get fully automatic rifles back into the hands of Marines because it's almost impossible to get out of FN's contracts and Congress doesn't see any advantages to fully automatic fire in the hands of a trained rifleman. They aren't replacing all their current issue SAWs and will still be using M240s and M249s for a long time to come.

Right, I know there was a discussion on this already, but from what I heard and read, there's really no way the IAR can replace the belt fed SAW, because it doesn't have the same ammo capacity, it has a lower ROF, and doesn't have a quick change outer barrel for when the barrel gets hot.

But they're trying to say it's "more accurate"....

Aug 18, 2010 20:10:38 GMT -5 Kilo Oscar Tango said:

So basically, the IAR isn't really a SAW at all.

Pretty much.

[Thor]

The IAR is a SAW in the same sense that that the BAR was a SAW in WWII.

And H&K isn't the only company trying to sell an open-bolt box magazine fed SAW to the gov't. LWRC made the M6A4, which apparently was passed up over the H&K version.

Bear in mind too, H&K hasn't exactly gotten a lot of government contracts as of late. So don't expect to see a whole bunch of Marine SAW gunners running around with this anytime soon. Rumors are like the town whore, they get passed around fast and no one knows who had it first. The Wikipedia article you linked states that they aren't even going to be deployed until 2011, and even then it's a trial deployment. My guess is, it won't cut it. Otherwise, weapon systems like the BAR would still be in service as SAWs.

[Zorak]

It seems to me that every AEG with a midcap is already filling the role of the IAR.

[Relarz]

I read somewhere that the IAR is supposed to fullfill the role that the infamous BAR left behind, evident by the fact that several attempts have been made to turn M16s into full auto beasts back in the past.

Not to mention they're deploying them with 30 round mags only for now. This getting adopted also went hand in hand with Magpul patenting a quad-stack 70? round magazine. I dont remember the exact capacity, but it'll be interesting for sure to find out how it goes.

[Kilo Oscar Tango]

Aug 19, 2010 14:21:06 GMT -5 Relarz said:

I read somewhere that the IAR is supposed to fullfill the role that the infamous BAR left behind, evident by the fact that several attempts have been made to turn M16s into full auto beasts back in the past.

What is the role of the BAR? Some dude that can fire off rounds more rounds than a rifleman in the same time, but not as many as a SAW? A quicker path to fire superiority than riflemen that's more accurate than a SAW?

There are obvious advantages to an IAR, such as reliabilty, accuracy, weight, but they just don't do the same thing as a SAW. There are compelling reasons as to why there are still belt-fed systems in service.

[Gunny87]

Right it's almost sorta like asking which was more effective as a support gun... the M1919 or the BAR....

The only advantage was that the BAR didn't have to be mounted, and could be fired from the shoulder, and carried like a traditional rifle. Except it was twice as heavy as a Garand or Springfield.

However for CQB the IAR would probably be more favorable.

[airsoftmarine7]

Well, the M249 was desinged for force on force ground combat against the Soviets. In that role it defiantly kicks some ass but nowadays over in Iraq and Afghanistan something for going more room to room indoors is needed. By ditching a few SAWs and replacing them with double IARs you get a good indoor weapon that can still preform as a suppressive fire weapon. and with two of them, while one fires, the other reloads to keep it coming.