Vitalis
New Member
I want to shoot somebody, airsoft style...
Posts: 320
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Post by Vitalis on May 31, 2002 23:02:00 GMT -5
Just found out today that one of our members just bought a chronograph. Pretty sweet, shelled out a hundred bucks for it, but at least we have one now... Surprising thing was what his AK was turning in. It was showing speeds of 410 fps with .20s which really surprised us because the only upgrades on the weapon were a set of bushing and an M120 spring. We didn't think it was going to be that high. I can't wait to find out what my stock MC-51 is turning in since I am going to be sending it to WTS within a couple of weeks to get some upgrades done to it. Vitalis
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Blorfo
New Member
Back to Banville
Look! I'm not causing trouble this time!
Posts: 766
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Post by Blorfo on May 31, 2002 23:03:08 GMT -5
uh oh.............i dont know if youll be calling "light" anymore.........
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Vitalis
New Member
I want to shoot somebody, airsoft style...
Posts: 320
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Post by Vitalis on May 31, 2002 23:07:22 GMT -5
hahahahha, no kidding.... The funny thing is, we are almost not trusting the chrono, because I have been shot point blank with that AK and the pain level really falls into the "Yeah, whatever" catagory... Then again, we DO beat each other with sticks, spears, arrows every week and those leave some serious bangs. We need MORE POWER, I just wish the guns could take it without breaking down like I've heard about. Vitalis
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Post by Newman on May 31, 2002 23:11:33 GMT -5
An M120 will run you in that range, Vitalis. Be sure that EVERYONE wears Z87 certified goggles (paintball goggles preferred, obviously) because at that speed, it can break beer bottles. Trust me, I know (remeniscing on Bigmack's exploits.... ;D). Don't worry, I bet you already require those kind of goggles, but just a warning for everyone out there that even a STOCK gun can blow through cheap goggles (my Red Rider bb gun blasted through a gas mask that I owned). Have fun getting shot by that gun, Vit.
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Vitalis
New Member
I want to shoot somebody, airsoft style...
Posts: 320
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Post by Vitalis on May 31, 2002 23:19:16 GMT -5
Thanks for the tip on the spring Newman, it's your guys experience around here that has helped us with our growing pains.
And as for the safety, it doesn't matter if you KNOW FOR SURE that we require full face sealing Z87 goggles. It never hurts to remind someone about safety.
Last Monday we were practicing and my wife shot me from about fifteen feet in the right temple. That mark lasted for two days and hurt when I touched it. I do not want to catch something like that in the eyes or the teeth.
Hmmm, and if an M120 spring gives that fps limit then I feel real confident in the upgrades I am getting done to my MC-51: PDI 150% Spring, metal bushings, systema flat gears, and guide rod with bearing.
Should put me at a nice comfortable range. Not too excessive, but powered up.
Thanks again Newman...
Vitalis
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Post by Newman on May 31, 2002 23:44:06 GMT -5
No problem, Vitalis, always glad to help other Michigan Airsofters out. Although, lately, I've gotten some bad information on some things (mounting stuff with the RIS) and unfortunately read something about the hop-up and told my friend it, and then it turned out that it/I was totally wrong. By the way, my M4A1 "Justice" 8) ;D uses the PDI 150%, and it seems like the perfect FPS for me: gives long-range capability, hits hard enough that people feel it, and launches .25s like a dream.
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Vitalis
New Member
I want to shoot somebody, airsoft style...
Posts: 320
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Post by Vitalis on May 31, 2002 23:55:28 GMT -5
Sweet about that 150% spring. I was worried that I was being too cautious about my power choice. As long as WTS-Mike is going to be in my weapon, I may just put in a new piston too. That shouldn't add too much more money... A couple of fps here and there should add up in the long run.... Vitalis
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Post by Minky on Jun 1, 2002 0:19:57 GMT -5
I know there's a better version of this chart floating around somewhere, but I can't seem to find it now. Anyhow, thought you might like to see this Vitalis: ozairsoft.com/ozteam/articles/resources/goodeschart.htmAnd now for the part where I quote DumboRAT from AirsoftOhio: Good choice with the PDI 150%, that seems to be the spring of choice around here lately. If I remember correctly Hado and Tempest have that spring in addition to Newman. I myself have a 140% in my AUG and it performs just great. We need to have a MI airsoft "meet and greet" so we can all chrono our guns now, I have nothing else to say! BTW, when you mention adding FPS from a new piston, do you mean a new piston head? Just getting a new Aluminum or Polycarb piston itself shouldn't add any speed, however one of the so called "uni-direction" piston heads could possibly create a tighter seal and net a few FPS gain. I've read conflicting reports on the usefulness of changing out the stock piston head, but if you're adding a new spring I think you might as well change the piston head while you're at it. The stock spring interfaces and locks up with the stock head, so when you add a new spring you have to remove the stock head anyway. About the only 2 ways to do this is to either, A) scrape away plastic from the piston head to get at the screw holding it on, or B) unscrew it with pliers. Both methods could damage the heads ability to get a proper seal, so I went ahead (no pun intended ) and got a Polycarb head from Systema when I upgraded. You might consider getting a new piston and head, just to make sure the two fit together like they're supposed to.
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Vitalis
New Member
I want to shoot somebody, airsoft style...
Posts: 320
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Post by Vitalis on Jun 1, 2002 10:10:26 GMT -5
Excellent, I am feeling way better now about the 150% spring. Sometimes I was starting to get unsure with everyone on the net talking about M120s or 200% springs... Cool... 150% will work... As for the Meet & Greet, sounds good to me, and I know my group would be up for it. We want to PLAY man, other than just practicing and shooting each other. And besides, finally meeting some other people from Michigan would be cool. Hell, we are thinking about driving to Indiana this month for a game just so we can play. And yeah, when I was talking about the new piston, I was referring to the piston head. My oops on wrong terminology there. Looking at this page: www.combatenterprises.com/shopcart.htm has been one of my more regular sources of information. So I have been thinking about cylinder head sets, etc. The only thing that I am trying to do is take all of this fps upgrade potential with a grain of salt. When I used to race cars we would build a motor and the various parts like headers, roller valve train, intake, etc, were all supposed to add 10 to 30 hp here and there. Mathmatically, the motor should be about 800hp In reality when you dyno the sucker, it would really be about 450. So all this 10fps for this part and 5 fps for that part, I will believe when I see the chrono results. The one thing I do believe in comes directly from my race days. Make the whole system right, gears, cylinder, spring, spring guide, etc... I mean, I wouldn't stick a huge supercharger on an engine without building the lower half and the valve train to match... My big limiting factor here, just like in cars, is ca$h... So it will be flat gears, bushings, spring, spring guide, and cylinder/piston if I can swing the money right now... Again, thanks for the help, I really appreciate it. And I hope we can do a meet and greet someday. I would love to attend some of your guys games, but I can't get the rest of my group on here posting And the last couple of games had the stipulation of not on the boards, no come to the game.... Vitalis
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Post by Minky on Jun 1, 2002 12:27:43 GMT -5
I agree with you 100% about not believing all the hype around upgrades. If I was inclined to take half the stuff I read as fact, I'd be thinking right now that my tightbore barrel had added anywhere from 10 to 40 FPS. In reality it's more likely to add maybe 5 if you're lucky The other big thing that people don't realize is how random your results when upgrading can be, especially when upgrading more than one thing at a time. These guns aren't exactly the most precision machines around, and minor differences in parts can make big differences in observed results. I've read of people sticking in supposed lower velocity springs like a 120% and gettting velocities that would be coming from a 170%. All it takes is for the guy in the factory overseas to stick the wrong spring in your box to muck up all your upgrade plans, I have nothing else to say. *edit* Forgot to include this link, which is another good resource that lists Systema parts and what they do: www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/articles/skyfire/upgrade_parts/intro.htm
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Post by DragginBlazer on Jun 1, 2002 14:39:14 GMT -5
I am thinking of doing some Internal upgrading of my P-90 myself. I couldn't decide on a spring because of the dumb NSAG rules.....
I think those rules suck only because I wanted to get an M120 and metal bushings put in my P-90 but then I would have to be 50 feet away and only use Semi.......
Voss
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Post by Minky on Jun 1, 2002 15:04:23 GMT -5
I wouldn't say the rules are dumb. They're set with safety in mind just like AO has done.
Voss, have you been shot with Bigmack's M120 upgraded gun? I've been hit with it from more than 50 feet away a few times and it's quite different than a stock gun. It hits a lot harder than you may think. Believe me, 50 feet is not that much, and with a spring like that you won't even notice the distance. The fact that you'd be restricted to semi is a safety issue, as well as a courtesy to other players. Most people don't want to get hit with a burst of BBs going 400 FPS or more.
I think you should go with an M100 or PDI 150% at most, since you'll retain full auto and maybe only have to limit your firing to 15 feet. The added benefit of a spring less than an M120 is that it's easier on your gearbox and is less likely to cause a major problem, especially if you're only adding bushings along with the spring...
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Post by DragginBlazer on Jun 1, 2002 18:48:26 GMT -5
Sounds good to me! ;D I was only planning to get an PDI 150% anyways.... But do you think If i get a PDI 150% that I will need to get a J-Battery? Of should I just buy another mini 8.4v?
Voss
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Post by Newman on Jun 1, 2002 20:13:42 GMT -5
My one 8.4 mini could only power semi-auto for about 200-300 shots, Ryan, and the other one couldn't even power semi.
Meanwhile, my 8.4V 1700 mAh powers full-auto at about 800 RPM (when it's actually charged fully, I have nothing else to say. Just found out that it wasn't charging it all the way until I double-charged it this morning and the ROF was nice and steady). I'd recommend getting an 8.4V J-battery, if they make it, and you'll be just fine.
BTW, I'd recommend an accurized barrel over FPS upgrade any day of the week. *me needs one*
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Post by Minky on Jun 1, 2002 20:24:18 GMT -5
Heh, the tightbore barrels are a bit overhyped as well. There's no doubt it will make a difference, but the difference will be more noticable in guns with longer barrels. The best combo I think is a spring and a tighter barrel. I installed my Systema BS barrel before I did any other upgrades, and it really didn't seem to do much. After I upped the FPS though, the difference was much more apparent.
The best description of what a tightbore barrel does is something I read on an airsoft forum the other day: Think of the stream of BBs coming out of your gun as filling up a cone in the direction you're aiming. When you decrease the inner diameter of your barrel, by adding a tightbore, you don't gain pinpoint long distance accuracy, but you are tightening up the radius of that cone of fire coming from your gun. Also, for what you gain from a better barrel, I think it's best to go with the cheaper Systema BS (brass) ones. The TN barrels don't seem to offer twice the performance, but they do cost twice as much!
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