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Post by Jacko on Oct 9, 2007 15:34:31 GMT -5
I have to agree with Tex here. I defy anyone who says my M21 isn't a weapon intended for a designated marksman and being stealthy isn't as important as providing accurate, long ranged fire while I'm with my squad.
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SkyPilot
New Member
Asshat - SkunkWorks Division
Posts: 911
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Post by SkyPilot on Oct 9, 2007 16:43:23 GMT -5
What pissed me off was the quote that came from you about being a sniper. I believe your comment was as totally out of line. And unless you have any military experince, or have taken some respectable sniper's school of stealth, I suggest you becareful what you say on these threads...
So I don't think i'm on my 'oh-so-high-and-mighty horse'. You orginally asked for a cheap good sniper rifle. I think my response was in line with a KJW M700. I understand you don't want gas, okay fine. I think what we are trying to say is ....there is no medium for a good cheap sniper rifle.
As for as a DM, you should be with your squad. So I don't understand why you need a bolt action. I would think you would rather have some firepower if running as a DM. If you want a rifle, I suggest a M14 or a M16SPR. You have a 'sniper rifle' and firepower when it's needed to support your squad.
My experince is that I get greatly out gunned when in the heat of the battle while running as a DM. And my m700 (bolt-action, 11round mag) doesn't always hold up when it's 5 on 1 with 200+ rounds in the air flying all at you. Plus I need to then start watching my engagement limits.
A DM isn't based on a rifle, it's based on how well you can shoot. Something that can be accomplished with a AEG.
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Post by Mosin on Oct 9, 2007 17:13:04 GMT -5
ah well was going to edit this in but Tex got to posting before I could. Once talking with a Marine "Sniper" we were discussing the role of a "sniper" on the battlefield and the difference between a sniper and a designated marksman. Sniper: a person that is foolhardy, camps, generally a child (or acts like one), snipes for just the killing spree it brings (ie not getting shot or shot back at), and pays no attention to strategy and teamwork. Designated marksman: Obviously the exact opposite, but to clarify. a DM works with his squad, plays a supporting role rather than an offensive role (though at the same time it's technically an offensive role), is there for his team and their strategy. The role of a DM is to take out key targets when needed, support his squad in such a manor as to ensure their safety. Usually this means they don't get as many kills in comparison to sat an assualt, but he/she has played a key part in the team's victory. Adjusted to fit airsoft terms but you get the idea. Tex, I was refering to real life for that part. Ok, I'm going to call you out on that sniper thing right now. I seriously doubt that any Marine sniper is going to say that snipers are foolhardy and childish, if anything they are the most elite people in the entire Military. A designated marksman will get airlifted into an area, drop a couple people, and taken back out so he can eat at his FOB. A Marine Sniper will go out alone, or with a spotter and wait days or even a week, completely still, alert the whole time, for one shot. Now, if you want to talk about airsoft, a sniper is pretty much a recon man. They're job is to look through their scope, gather intel, and see what they can do with what's givin to them. The spotter and the sniper usually radio info to all other players on the team telling them where mass amounts of people are moving, but sometimes they are given the task of eliminating key players (Generals, Medics, Special players at the event, marked targets) and they more than likely succeed. I have made low crawls with my snipers that I run with for times of up to 2-3 hours, moving maybe 100-150 yards. In the end, of course it pays off, but majority of airsoft snipers don't have that sort of patience and will shoot at the first thing that they think their gun can hit. So before you go around saying that you quoted some guy, tell the truth. My grandfather was USMC Scout/Sniper and he would be anything but fullish and childish. -1 Karma for you.
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Post by xaos on Oct 9, 2007 17:50:24 GMT -5
Ok, I'm going to call you out on that sniper thing right now. I seriously doubt that any Marine sniper is going to say that snipers are foolhardy and childish, if anything they are the most elite people in the entire Military. A designated marksman will get airlifted into an area, drop a couple people, and taken back out so he can eat at his FOB. A Marine Sniper will go out alone, or with a spotter and wait days or even a week, completely still, alert the whole time, for one shot. Now, if you want to talk about airsoft, a sniper is pretty much a recon man. They're job is to look through their scope, gather intel, and see what they can do with what's givin to them. The spotter and the sniper usually radio info to all other players on the team telling them where mass amounts of people are moving, but sometimes they are given the task of eliminating key players (Generals, Medics, Special players at the event, marked targets) and they more than likely succeed. I have made low crawls with my snipers that I run with for times of up to 2-3 hours, moving maybe 100-150 yards. In the end, of course it pays off, but majority of airsoft snipers don't have that sort of patience and will shoot at the first thing that they think their gun can hit. So before you go around saying that you quoted some guy, tell the truth. My grandfather was USMC Scout/Sniper and he would be anything but fullish and childish. -1 Karma for you. He's talking more about the guys who wanna be a "l337 snypah" vs. the dude that's actually got a brain in his head and understands the role of a DM (or a marine sniper, who, for all practical purposes, is a DM). There's a big difference between that guy that just wants to rack up what he believes are going to be tons of kills without ever getting shot at, and the guy that knows just what his role is. Next time perhaps you should think a bit more before flying off the handle and getting all offended. And, thetrigger, if you're saying an AEG is any less capable of being a DM rifle than a bolt-action, then you're full of shit, and a whole lot dumber than your reasonably intelligent posts make you sound.
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Post by Mosin on Oct 9, 2007 18:35:51 GMT -5
I wasn't flying off the handle, just because majority of my team mates consider themselves a sniper or a marksmen doesn't mean that they are noobs looking to get kills without getting shot at. A designated marksmen isn't a sniper, and the fact that they both qualify with a rifle extremely well is just about the only thing they'd have in common.
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Post by triggs on Oct 9, 2007 19:00:59 GMT -5
Xoas: nope not at all. AEG's are prefectly capable as a DMR, however I was considering a bolt action for the feel of the gun not the extended range one might get.
Mosin: Smite me all you want I really don't care. Snipers are very important don't ever think otherwise. As I stated they can and do play a huge role in modern combat. As Xoas was able to pick up I was indeed refering to the "l337 snypah" (nice term Xoas) that act foolhardy and childish.
Something that needs to be cleared up again: I have been using my AEG as a DMR Yes it is an H&K XM8 which isn't exactly a replica rifle, but I tend to prefer realism (hence switching over from paintball). Does anyone realize how unrealistic a AEG is for sniping? VERY. I have an old springer (far outranged by the AEG) and I miss being able to: cock, pull, kill 1, 2, 3. THAT is why I am considering a bolt action DMR. Yes you are going to be outgunned in a 5 v 1 firefight, but then again your squad is hopefully close by and you can hide/move long enough to avoid them.
I hate to use the term sniper as it 99% of the time gets confused between a DM and some "kid" but; Snipers can be lone wolf, while still keeping in contact with their squad of course, but I prefer a 2 man team. Usually my pick is a support in case we are discovered he can mow em down. Spot on Again that is a proper DM job, very well done Kudos to your grandfather we owe him a lot
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Post by Gentner on Oct 9, 2007 19:21:41 GMT -5
* I wasn't flying off the handle, just because majority of my team mates consider themselves a sniper or a marksmen doesn't mean that they are noobs looking to get kills without getting shot at. A designated marksmen isn't a sniper, and the fact that they both qualify with a rifle extremely well is just about the only thing they'd have in common. And they also go through some parts of sniper school as well. And 80% of the time when my Brother was in Iraq with the 3rd Battalion, 2nd Marine Regiment in 2006, he spent 95% of his tour sitting on roof tops, relying intel, and throughout a seven month tour he killed 4 insurgents, and through out that time, they did more then the DMs that they trained, because the DMs werent being used to their full potential. And if he reads that saying: And sees you in person, expect an ass kicking, Airsoft or not thats just the same shit that actually gets thrown in their face when they interact with civilians. Because people dont understand what they do, and ass wholes like the 2 DC Shooters and that give everyone else a bad name. Think about your post before you post it. And dont think they get shot at either, because they do, even in airsoft. Their was multiple times when I helped Mosin out after he was shot (Not attacking you Mosin) at Aurora and 1 or 2 occasions where I helped Livonia. I healed Tex 4 times alone that day and he was on the front lines in shorts, boots and a t-shirt.
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Post by Mosin on Oct 9, 2007 19:33:36 GMT -5
Does anyone realize how unrealistic a AEG is for sniping? VERY. Actually, I have an AEG that I snipe with. It's a lot simplier in airsoft terms because if my shot misses I can adjust and squeeze the trigger again without having to rack the bolt. AEG's can be customized into anything, and anyone who has seen my gun shoot can attest to that. Also, it's still realistic, because you've got the semi auto function, and most of the guns that people shoot, if they were real steel, would do some damage to you. Especially my M41FS offizier.
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Post by triggs on Oct 9, 2007 19:40:46 GMT -5
Gentner; Correct people don't understand what a true sniper really is, which is why people that actually understand the role don't use the term "sniper" rather a designated marksman. People that run around killing people with sniper rifles do indeed give a bad name. I never said they didn't get shot at. I was refering to the "l337 snypah's" that play the "sniper" role. Given that they are noobish enough to call themselves snipers without any understanding of the actual role I gaurantee they will end up in a lot of situations where they are getting shot at. They choose the "sniper" role as they THINK they won't get shot or shot at. And no I am not implying Mosin, livonia, or Tex are noobish kids. From their posts it's very clear they know what they're doing. People continue to take that part of the post out of context, so: THE LINE ABOUT A FOOLHARDY CHILD CALLING THEMSELVES A SNIPER ONLY REFERS TO THE TYPE OF PERSON THAT CONSIDERS THEMSELVES A "l337 snypah" I am not screaming/yelling I put it in caps to clear things up. moderator: Perhaps we can close this thread, it's only turning intoa flame fest. The original point of this thread has been answered (thanks Tex). Mosin: I didn't say it doesn't work. In my term of realism it's a bolt action for a sniper. I don't mind using a AEG, but I prefer the feel of a bolt action that's all, my personal opinon. Gentner, Tex, Mosin I look forward to meeting you guys someday. it's very clear you'd be great teamates. Sweet, up to -3 karma EDIT: And Mosin as it goes once the AEG is back up and working I'll be continuing to use it as a DMR EDIT: Make that -4 thanks a bunch guys
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Post by Gentner on Oct 9, 2007 20:02:51 GMT -5
I didnt mean to seem like an ass, I just act like one to make a point as does Tex. Little things like that piss me off, but for the most part, if you want to have a DMR, another choice is the CA SR 25, pre-upgraded to 420 FPS. I know Striker has one, and from what I can tell, their good rifles. But for the most part, I think DM would be better for you. And in the long run it will be too, especially if you get the SR 25, it still has full auto and is still in play with the MIA rules/ some fields for rifles (420 fps limit) So if you dont like it, you still have an M16 type rifle, full auto, and RIS Rails etc and can do run and gun. If you check alittle more into that, you might seem to like that rifle as with the other CA you were looking into. And trust me Im not claiming to be Carlos Hathcock, I actually like being a Medic and that, but I would love to get back into the Sharpshooting/Marksman side of Airsoft. What I ment about Livonia and Tex being killed was that even the top guns get hit and that btw.
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Post by triggs on Oct 9, 2007 20:10:16 GMT -5
Gentner, your ok man sometimes it's needed. I can be an ass as well, though keeping a cool head give ya less grey hairs.
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Post by xaos on Oct 9, 2007 23:51:28 GMT -5
though keeping a cool head give ya less grey hairs. Nah, it doesn't. I'm an asshole most of the time, and all my old-man hair is still blond
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Post by Tex on Oct 10, 2007 3:11:39 GMT -5
I healed Tex 4 times alone that day and he was on the front lines in shorts, boots and a t-shirt. I have nothing else to say, what can I say.. I'm psychotic! Though I do fondly remember yelling "MEDICCCCCCCCCCCCCCC" and actually getting healed, that was sweet! Normally I yell it for a few minutes and nobody comes
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Post by Gentner on Oct 10, 2007 15:52:33 GMT -5
I healed Tex 4 times alone that day and he was on the front lines in shorts, boots and a t-shirt. I have nothing else to say, what can I say.. I'm psychotic! Though I do fondly remember yelling "MEDICCCCCCCCCCCCCCC" and actually getting healed, that was sweet! Normally I yell it for a few minutes and nobody comes Thats because im not afraid to run through a hail of bbs to help someone out. Now if Livonia shot you, then you'd be on your own. Im brave, but not that brave ;D
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17cents
New Member
Michigan Liberation Organization
Posts: 5
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Post by 17cents on Oct 10, 2007 15:52:53 GMT -5
I wanted to chime in with my .02 just to set the record straight.
My credentials: USMC scout sniper school '01 Tour in Afghanistan '02 Tour in Iraq '03 and '04
Designated Marksmen in the USMC don't go to sniper school. They are simply the guy who got the highest score on his last rifle range qualification. There is one per every squad. They take long range shots that require precision shooting.
Snipers go through a lengthy indoctrination into thier battallion's STA platoon prior to being shipped off to a 13 week formal sniper school. In the USMC snipers are called "scout snipers" becuase they do more information gathering than they do actual shooting. The days of assassination style lone wolf sniping have been over for awhile. *** Modern sniper shots are taken in conjunction with an infantry assault ***
Just setting the record straight....sorry this is completely off topic but I don't like to see my fellow HOGs misrepresented
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