Rules Usage

[Vitalis]

Ok, two games coming up that I am pretty sure the newly composed, ready to be tested, temp MiA combat rules are going to be used at will be this weekend, September 7th at Viking's and September 21st out at the Wolverine Tactical game.

Please let me know any coherent and relevant thoughts, ideas, and comments about the rules as they were used. Any observations, etc.

I'm about as sharp as a baseball. That's why I used stupid text speak.,

-Vitalis

[Minky]

Not really on the topic of this thread, but the idea just popped into my head. Perhaps adding a line to whatever waiver an event organizer uses about having read the MiA rules would be a good idea? If we had a specific URL with the rules posted in whatever their current form was, you could have a line in the waiver such as:

"I have read and agree to abide by the rules and regulations of MiA, as posted at www.blahblah.com" Signed_______________.

It might give players an extra incentive to familiarize themselves with the rules.

*edit* Heh, I guess blahblah.com is actually owned by someone, I have nothing else to say.

[resnic]

Oh my god they made you a mod?

There goes the neighborhood.

[DevilDog]

I agree with Minky... A copy of the rules should be made available to those who have not had a chance to read them.

On a different note, I've been talking with the State Attorney General's Office about the legal age for Airsoft. I really don't want to run into any problems when any team or MiA host's a skirmish. The law is pretty vague when it comes to Airsoft. Since it's not a traditional bb gun (.177 caliber or 4mm) it is merely interpretation by the judge. The Attorney General could only tell me to check with the local PD on any local opinion. Here is what they sent me back:

"Attorney General Granholm has asked me to reply to your inquiry on the legal age of a person participating in paint ball competition. To my knowledge, there is no specific law dealing with this issue. As a general rule a person under the age of 18 cannot possess a firearm in public. mcl 750.234f. But a paint ball gun may not fall under the definition of firearm found at mcl 750.222(d). That definition requires that the weapon fire a "dangerous projectile", by means of an explosive or gas or air. I think most courts would find that the paint ball is not an inherently dangerous projectile. I hope this information is helpful."

And message #2 from the same guy:

"The issue is whether the paint ball is a "dangerous projectile". I don't think so, but someone else may disagree and there is no law on the subject. I would check with the local police to get their view."

I just wanted you guys to be aware of what the State's position was on this. For some reason, he kept refering to it as paintball.... Hmm... I guess the State associate Airsoft with Paintball... Yikes!!

[Knief]

from a legal standpoint, the two are very similar. they don't care that we prefer not to wear jersies and play different types of games. The only recognizable distinctions is the look of the guns. remember, airsoft guns can fire paintballs (but we know better), so even the projectile can be the same.

search for a post a while back where i asked if airsoft was illegal in Michigan. WTS-Mike made pretty much the same argument that it was legal as this fella you spoke to. Airsoft bbs are not dangerous projectiles.

[DevilDog]

I think I saw your post before... The question I had for them wasn't about legality, it was age. Since you have to be 18 to buy the gun, I was concerned about playing with those under 18.

I know we now have rules, and I am pretty confident that the caliber of player under 18 is a little bit more mature than those who don't play (at least from the posts I've read on the board). I just don't want to get rousted by Johnny Law (especially up here in the Great White North where all the do is mess with those of us who like to have fun) for playing with under age people. I understand Viking's waiver, and appreciate him letting me use it (Thanks again Viking ). I remember what happened downstate a while ago when weapons were confiscated. Just concerned I guess...

I can't wait to play with you guys. Hopefully my schedule and the evente schedule can get on track soon!!!

[Bigmack]

just remember...when our weapons were taken...we were playing damn near in the middle of a city...in a public civic center...without the owners permission. that's a bit different from any woodland setting.

[Newman]

Devildog, just had to add about this:

"I think I saw your post before... The question I had for them wasn't about legality, it was age. Since you have to be 18 to buy the gun, I was concerned about playing with those under 18. "

The same thing goes with paintball; people are SUPPOSED to be 18 to buy paintball and Airsoft guns, but it just so happens that some are not that age...the restrictions are just so much lighter than with real guns because of the damage potential difference.

My .02.

[DevilDog]

Sorry bout that Biggie... I forgot about the city thing.. ;D

I didn't mean to start another flame war, just wanted to pass along some info....

The cops up here have nothing better to do than roust people having fun. We just wanted to be safe than sorry. I figured the Attorney General, being the head lawyer for the State, would actually have a position on this.

Very good point Newman!!

This is the law that sparked my interest:

752.891 Use or possession of BB handgun by minor. [M.S.A. 28.436(41) ]
Sec. 1.

No person under 18 years of age shall use or possess any handgun designed and manufactured exclusively for propelling BB's not exceeding .177 calibre by means of spring, gas or air, outside the curtilage of his domicile unless he is accompanied by a person over 18 years of age.

Since there is at least one person over 18 at any event, I would say we are ok... Also, it only makes reference to handguns. I still can't get clarification on that.

I'm just trying to help out and trying to stop any future incedents with the law!!! ;D

[Bigmack]

except airsoft guns = ~.24 caliber. o.O

[Jacko]

That seems to apply to handguns, but what about rifles? I've seen that portion of the law before, while doing some research, but that was a while ago.

In concern to paintball guns and this law, paintball guns are .68 caliber, but don't fire BB's. I believe they make a distinction between BB's and paintball's, so since they fire 'paint filled gelatin spheres', this law is pretty much moot in regards to that.

[WTS-Mike]

Guys I know this is old, but just an addition, the 18 and over thing we enforce for sales is t cover our but, so no soccer mom can come to us later on and say, YOU sold my little bobby this damgerous weapon and he shot his eye out, I am going to sue you!!

The waiver and age restriction, makes sure the legal liability falls with the adult that purchases it, that way they have condoned the sale and use of the gun by Thier son or daughter.

;D

[LargePrime]

How did the rules work out for thoes that tested them?

[Vitalis]

In my opinion, the rules worked good, except my FPS topic that we are discussing...

-Vitalis