R-Hop shooting way too high?

[Taho]

I recently was doing some tech work on my Dboys M4, that has a Madbull black tightbore and a G-Hop installed. I decided I would try and install the infamous R-Hop, as I've heard amazing tales of pecking off people at 300+ feet with them. I was already getting about 180 feet with the G-Hop, using .23 bbs.  They shot straight, and were accurate. My gun shoots 380 FPS last time I used a crono. When using the .23s after installing the R-Hop, I saw bbs go about 50 feet and then straight up, an issue not had with the G-hop. Thinking it was my flat nub, (which was an eraser) I kept sanding it down to see if it would help even out the shots. The eraser is now completely off the hop up arm, and my bbs are still shooting 50 feet then straight up. Is there an issue with my install, or do I just need heavier bbs? I'd really prefer not to buy new bbs as I literally just bought a new pack of 4000 or so .23s. Thanks for any responses in advance, and sorry for the novel.

[Snarf]

.23s aren't ideal. I'd go with .28s or above. Also, you might need to do some more sanding on the inside of the rhop patch. TBH I haven't done a full installation, but I've watched enough videos to know that it shouldn't stick into the barrel too much.

[luke213]

Well Rhops and I have a sorted history mostly involving swearing and little success;)

But that said I do have a couple installs that work properly. I should note I bought the tubing in length to build mine from not the precut patches which might have made things more difficult than had I spent the money on the precut version.

Either way from the sounds of it, it's an install problem not the weight of BB's. Rhop's will work with any weight so long as it's installed properly and not basically hopping the BB without any hop turned on. Some guys solve that problem by going up in BB weight which just basically makes the little bit of hop that is occurring all the time not noticeable. The right way in my opinion is to either reinstall the patch in a way to insure it's not sticking down into the barrel at all. Or remove material from the inside of the patch to make sure it's not sticking down into the barrel at all, maybe even a bit up above the line of the barrel. I'd recommend trying to get the patch in place rather than sanding the inner diameter. It's very hard to get the finish consistent and it won't be as consistent as the factory finish on the inside if you have to sand it down. But basically you've gotta pull the patch out and either glue the legs such that it doesn't get into the window at all or sand until it does the same thing.

I have managed to rhop my sniper rifle(TM VSR10) and noticed an improvement in how it hops seems to be a little flatter than a bucking. Overall I'm happy with the change in that platform though I still have more work to do since I've got a very slight right hook, which I can correct by tilting the gun. Basically one leg is interfering slightly and causing hop on one side more than the other. So I can rotate the barrel slightly to solve that or tear the rhop out and do the same as I mentioned above. I have done it in one of my M4 barrels as well and it did seem to help a fair amount there but I've got a couple other issues with the install that currently are stopping me from testing more. But in that install it went perfectly then after maybe 200 rounds it's gone wonky, not sure if the patch came loose or something else is up, haven't taken the time to tear it apart to find out.

I will say in my experience rhopping a gun is difficult, not nearly as easy as it looks in the video's and has a somewhat questionable increase in performance. That said I'm not anti-rhop at all, but at least for me it's been a bear. I've put a patch in my M14 probably a dozen times and nothing but pinch jams all over the place. The patch I put in my sniper rifle worked first try. So maybe with allot more practice my opinions will change but right now I'd say maybe it's helping some, but how much is unsure. I will say it requires much less intrusion into the barrel to hop a BB up higher because it's such a long contact patch compared to an ordinary bucking which is why it works better with heavier rounds. For instance I can't hopup a .43g BB in a stock bucking on an M4(several brands), but I can with an rhop.

So for my take the jury is still out but there is a potential gain if everything in the install is perfect.

Take care!

Luke

[Taho]

Really appreciate you taking the time to write all that down. I do have to ask though, what would be the best way to sand inside that barrel? As far as I know, all I have to work with really is some 200 grit flat sandpaper. And would sanding inside the barrel cause potential damage and inconsistencies in shots, or would it not be an issue?

Also, my shots have absolutely no side to side deviance, the only issue is a very high, straight up curve that starts at around 50 feet. It's like I shoved two M-Nubs on my hop up arm and cranked the thing all the way.

[luke213]

Well the bad news is your going to have to pull the patch out of the barrel either way you do it. If you sand it in place you're just going to ruin your barrel to some degree or another.

Grit wise your going to need something higher than 200, they used to recommend 400+. In my experience on the installs I sanded the inner diameter I used 400 then finished it with 800 and that seems to work. The hard part is getting the patch to lay flat while you sand it since it's so dang small;) There are tools out there purpose built for it but I made mine and here's what I'm using. I took a pen cap off a bic pen, cut it so it's only a half circle so you basically have a half tube about the same size as the outside of an inner barrel. Then I glued some 200 or so grit sandpaper to the inside of it. The purpose of the sandpaper there is just to hold the patch in place the grit keeps it from moving while your sanding the inside dimension. Then I wrapped and glued some 400 and some 800 grit to an old chainsaw file, since it was round and about the right size and used that for the sanding while it sat in the pen cap tube. It's not ideal but it works, anything round and the right size for either piece will do. You may not need to glue the paper in both places but it was one less thing to hold onto for me. I've seen a guy cut a groove in a piece of wood, then staple sandpaper into the groove to hold it still while sanding that's where I got the idea of the pen tube so that might be another option. Basically you need to hold it where it can't move and lays flat supported so you don't change the profile or shape while it squishes under the pressure of the sanding. You can get higher grit paper at Walmart in the automotive section near the Bondo and whatnot for fairly cheap or a hardware store. But I'd highly recommend higher grit, I tried it with low grit myself first had nothing but allot of time and headaches from it. Works much much better well it worked with higher grit. Lower grit just grips the patch far too much and causes problems.

You might find some side to side once you get the patch installed, hard to tell. If it's only a little bit just rotate the barrel slightly to counter it. Basically what you're getting is that patch is sticking down into the window just a touch too much, it takes next to nothing to make it overhop because it's so much more contact on the path of the BB vs. a bucking. Also in my opinion your further ahead having the patch slightly raised out of the window for that same reason keeps it out of the path of the BB completely until you turn the hopup knob and get some hop. Then you can always adjust how much pressure is put on the patch by how big the nub is. I've recently thought the better way to do an rhop might be to get tubing slightly thinner than the actual barrel diameter and flush with the outer dimension. Since doing it that way would leave a slight gap at the spot where it touches the BB but would make installs much easier and likely have the same results. But I haven't tested that idea, I might order some tubing one of these days to match outer dimensions and try it but time has been short for tearing apart guns lately;)

Take care and not a problem posting info;) I've had a hell of a run in with these rhops but at least I've learned something from the experience so far. Eventually I'll have them in all my guns but hopefully I'll figure out a slightly easier way to have success more frequently as well;)

Luke

[Gunny87]

Yeah you definitely need heavier bb's as already stated. .28's are really the lightest you'll be able to use with an R-hop as it provides way more hop than a flat or normal bucking and nub. But it sounds like luke213 definitely diagnosed your issue. The bb is making contact with more of the R-hop patche's surface and needs to be sanded down more.

There's supposedly another kind of tubing that can be used that is much easier to use for an R-hop. It requires less shaving and fits the contour of the bb providing greater contact with the bb.



Check out Airsoft Advances on Facebook. I'm actually shipping out a barrel of mine to have them work on. They'll install the hop, do an M-nub install and test it to work in your hop up unit and return ship it for $45.00

[luke213]

I'd say the tubing looks to be the same stuff just one of the other colors. I should say technically I'm talking about IRHOP since the tubing is the silicone based tubing that they are using in IRhop rather than the traditional rhop material which I've forgotten what it's made from. Either way you can actually order the tubing in several colors and a bunch of sizes, that there looks like closer to what I was thinking which would be a larger inner diameter with a smaller outer which should cut the sanding down to next to nothing outside and no work on the inner.

Maybe I'll get on that one of these days;)

Luke

[Taho]

I picked up some 400 and 600 grit at the local hardware store, wanted 400 and 800 but they had 400, 600, and 1500. I'll be ordering some .30 bbs off amazon, and prime should have them here in a few days. Looking at my install, shouldn't be an awful lot of sanding to do for the inner. Thanks again to you guys for being so helpful and detailed with your explanations, I'll try and post an update when I get both the time and the rest of the stuff I need.

[luke213]

Not a problem keep me posted if you run into trouble since I've had a fair share of that

Take care!

Luke

[Kjones]

The bb should be able to roll from one end of the barrel to the other with out being stopped by the hop up patch ( with out pushing it) If it hits with out any hopup applied then it is either going to jam or it is going to overhop. I shoot .32 out of mine (from evike, they are good) and I get good results with them.

[Taho]

So a little update just so you guys know what's going on...I messed up pretty bad. Cut two of the patches too short, then had one that fit, but I sanded the edges down too much and they were rough and had a hard time sitting in the hop up window. I've ordered some more patches off eBay, and at least now I know for one NEVER to glue unless you're sure the patch will work, and to always cut bigger than what you expect. I'm heading to a game on the 9th, and the patches might not be here for a week, so I'll just run a flat hop with a nub I made out of eraser for the time being, which gets me a respectable 190 feet or so, a tiny bit better than the G-Hop I had before. Thanks again to you guys, this has been a learning experience. >.<