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Post by Kjones on Jul 19, 2014 0:49:13 GMT -5
I have noticed that over the last year attendance has been slipping in all of the events around metro Detroit. No limits use to have 100 people register on the forum and about 150 show up, now about 50 register and about 75 show up ( last 2 events). Farmington would sell out in previous years ( max of 40 people?) but this last year I dont think we even managed to get 20 people per game. The most I have heard of going to tango down in Detroit is about 15. Matrix struggles to get 15 people per event. And I do not ever see people sign up for phoenix tactical events. Im not sure if I missed any other ones around here, But over all I see a pretty big decline in attendance. Anyone else notice this? What is the cause? Is everyone just too damn lazy to get off their ass and play a game?
Every event I go to there is always a pretty large group of brand new people. Are these people just playing the one game and never returning? I know places like matrix and tango down can not survive for long if they can only get 15 people every 2 or 3 weeks. The same can be said with farmington, but he at least has the haunted house to keep him afloat and No limits has the paintball.
What are your thoughts? Did you just have one bad experience and decided to say f*ck them and never show up again?
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Post by Pagan on Jul 19, 2014 6:12:23 GMT -5
Actually our last no limits game was the only one under 100 players in the past two years. There were 85 players at that event.
I do agree numbers have lowered. What I've noticed as a host, is that the number of veteran players, and by vet I mean two or more years around mia events, don't attend events as much any more. We get anywhere from 10 to 20 first time players at each no limits event and we see those same people at the next one as well. What I don't see are the larger groups of vet players that we used to have come out.
Back when I started playing four years ago, I would see the same guys at either farmington or mtac every other week. Other that eastside ( which almost no one on mia goes to) and the new Phoenix tactical which just opened back up, there isn't the same cool place that everyone goes to all the time.
The other thing is we now have more events available. No limits used to be the only field on the east side of the state hosting regular events, and now we also have RAGE hosting monthly events at hell survivors. Most of the players I know attend a game a month, so when you have two or three to chose from, the need to attend because it's the only time there will be a game this month is gone.
Most of the serious vet players I know now hold out for national events. We had four in the last three years that have drawn huge attendance from mia vets.
It would be awesome to see the huge numbers at events again, but with all choices available now, I think it will just be good turn outs at more events. There isn't the fear of: "shit, if I don't go this is the only game being hosted this month".
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Post by tankleader on Jul 19, 2014 9:08:54 GMT -5
The group of players that I used to play with have been hitting National events across the country. The cost of getting ready requires sacrificing some local events. We do however strive to at least attend one of those between the national events.
Tanks Andy
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R2zoo
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Post by R2zoo on Jul 19, 2014 17:54:33 GMT -5
Within my group of players, and myself as well, out attendance dropped due to life events, and lack of convenience. I've only now started to get back into playing more regularly, but most of my gametime is at Eastside. Mostly due to convenience, that and I tend to enjoy CQB when its not just speed ball in disguise. Its far easier for me to get up, drive 15 minutes and go play, and get a few friends to tag along, then it is to get people to commit to a bigger game in advance, or even to get them on board for an hour drive. For me at least, having someone to hit an event with makes me far more likely to do it. With Eastside however, I do commonly see that same groups playing weekends, and it nice to run with people you know.
That said, I have been out to No Limits, and a couple smaller fields here and there, and greatly enjoyed it. Was worth the drive, but it more intensive then throwing a bag on the back seat, and going to play for a few hours down the street. Still plan to make it back out to No Limits one of these games, and really wanna give Hell Survivors a go as well. Just gotta free up a whole day, and find some buddies to drive down with me.
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Post by Puma1 on Jul 19, 2014 19:00:21 GMT -5
As rzoo touched upon, other people is what airsoft is all about. I started this game thinking it was all super-military cool guy shit; what I didn't expect was to find a community of friends. While a community is great, as a new guy it was also really intimidating. I don't have any close friends who regularly attend games, so it's rough to make the trip alone, not knowing if you'll have a group to roll with or not. Besides @timm, I've never had a real conversation with most if the guys and gals on here.
Besides the issue of attending games in groups, I have a car with 150,000 + miles on it, and I can't justify the 200 mile round trip to get to Metro Detroit when I'm not sure my car can make it back. If I had a ride, I'd be at every game I could.
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Post by Gunslinger on Jul 20, 2014 13:11:51 GMT -5
I gave up playing small req style games because it turned into like some one said speed ball for kids.
No tactics, no restrictions other than don't cheat, which never works out. Just as pegan said the big national games are all kinds of organized. Rules are followed if nothing else because of the caliber of players on the field who spent allot of money to have a good time and possibly had to drive to another state to do it.
I will venture out every now and again to places like Kalamazoo and blast some cheating little kids in the face. But usually I just wait for the bigger events. I think part of it is also like pegan said there are just soo many people doing it ya start to think like, "well if I don't go this weekend I can always go next". And so on. When I first got into airsoft there weren't any fields to play at. People were running around family farms and state national forests after getting the ok from Dnr.
So maybe the problem is over saturation. If the unfortunate result is less fields but bigger turn outs then so be it. Then the field owners can charge more to get better props and improve game play and also limit the less desirable players from attending at all.
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Post by Gimpalong on Jul 20, 2014 18:38:30 GMT -5
There are just so many more venues and events these days. When I started playing, roughly 2006, there was maybe, maybe one major event per month and then a smattering of rec games at different places a couple of times a month. Nowadays there are rec games at some location nearly every weekend and major events are much more frequent.
Back when I lived in Grand Blanc, I could easily travel to Bangor, Charlotte, Pinckney and Taylor to play in the course of a summer since you basically had to travel if you wanted to play. Nowadays people can grab a rec game here or there, attend a major event from time to time.
A lot of us veteran players caught the big event "bug" after having attended Northern Light; so a lot of us are taking opportunities to travel out of state or to major, national events when we get the chance.
Personally, I'd like to see fewer rec games and more major events in order to get a bigger turnout, but that would adversely impact the profitability of a lot of places. Of course, now these same places are facing increased competition and thus lower turnout anyway... so...
I also think the sport has shrunk. The economy has been bad since 2008 and people have lots of other things to do besides airsoft. A lot of us veteran players have gotten older and have responsibilities, family events, etc. Myself, I moved to Traverse City for work, and so attending an event in Bangor or down near Detroit is basically an entire weekend affair. When you own a house, have a family, have responsibilities, it makes it hard to get out and devote that much time to travel. If there was a place to play on a regular basis (not just rec games) near where I live, I'd be trying to get out as much as possible since I wouldn't have to spend so much time traveling. But alas...
Like Gunslinger, I've generally avoid rec games. I'll go to one or two if the opportunity presents itself just to hang out with folks, shoot the shit with teammates and help out beginners, but I rarely go to events anywhere solely for the game play. I spent a few years attending events by myself and since I know a lot more people now I'm a lot less interested in playing with people I don't know. I've played enough that just going out and shooting some random kids isn't that big of a thrill anymore. I want to play with friends, hang out and enjoy the day. Playing airsoft is almost, just almost secondary to what I really want to do.
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Post by Kjones on Jul 20, 2014 21:02:17 GMT -5
OK, I understand that more events makes it easier to just skip this weekend since there will be another next weekend. But it seems like a lot of the people are actually never committing to a weekend, just skipping weekend after weekend. If people were just skipping one weekend and hitting the next one then I would expect this coming weekend to have 40+ people at matrix since at least 40 people did not go to no limits yesterday ( from normal numbers). But that will not be the case, matrix has had maybe 25 total different people show up.
It also seems like people rarely attend games at other fields they do not know. I talk to a lot of the people at No Limits and it is the only place they have ever been and they have played over 10 games there. I myself have been to every field around except phoenix tactical ( nothing personal, just never seems to work with my scheduled). Are people just intimidated of going new places? It can not be a distance thing, You have 5 fields with in 30 miles of each other ( no limits, matrix, farmington, tango down, phoenix).
last thing, If vets only like to attend major events, what could draw you to a non-major event? Is the biggest factor the quality of players? Does the objective matter to you more then anything? Is it the quality of the host?
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Post by cqbr on Jul 20, 2014 21:22:23 GMT -5
Distance of course plays a role, but for me it boils down to whether the field I've never been to peaks my interest enough to actually try it.
Tango Down peaked my interest, went there...nopenopenope.jpg The new Phoenix Tactical...Doesn't interest me in the least with that cramped floor plan they have, and clientele they cater to. EastSide....Hahaha...NO Matrix...Looks like a few bunkers built up on a mosquito breeding ground. Not interested in donating blood. (Had fun the one time I went to the old one though) No Limits...Paintballers are annoying sure, but the field itself interests me and the games are generally worth the drive. (God, that weather made me want to an hero yesterday) SFOD....Never had a bad time at Corey's place. I'm sure I'll go to the one that's coming up soon. Bangor..Giant swamp/river with two muddy hills on the edges. Not interested in going back, and DEFINITELY not worth the 3hr drive. Hells Survivors...Super cool field, owners can go get hit by a semi as far as I'm concerned. Not worth the driving distance for myself either.
I think that's all the places I've played at. Feels like I missed one though? *shrug*
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Post by Deacon on Jul 20, 2014 21:50:00 GMT -5
Farmington, MTAC...
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Post by cqbr on Jul 20, 2014 21:58:38 GMT -5
Oh yeah. Farmington is fun if there aren't too many people. I'd go back as usual. Never even heard of MTAC.
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Post by Guts and Glory on Jul 20, 2014 22:23:27 GMT -5
Much of what has been said already is what I would agree with, except for an odd situation with myself.
For me, Rec games work out best because quite frankly my kit does not suit events being held here in Michigan. Yes, folks would immediately say that I should just suck it up and wear woodland/3 color desert, but I like what I have, have put some work into gathering it all up, and I enjoy getting to actually wear it all for once. In the past I would find that event hosts would like to see me out there in my kit, and encourage folks to try and make some sort of effort for having kits away from the norm, only to find that people did not. Perhaps that is part of why the allowances have narrowed (and honestly, I read enough every day as to why).
I am also not a radio person, nor do I belong to any team or even a casual group. Most folks that know me are because I tend to latch on to them when we meet up at some game. Some times it works out great, other times I just end up sitting in a bush all day after losing track of folks, but I still have a great time.
How does this apply to the topic?
I applaud what some event hosts are doing with trying to get that speedball vibe out. At the same time, there has been many events I have missed not only for personal reasons, but because quite frankly I feel completely out of sorts with them. I sincerely doubt that I could do events like Northern Light, or even some of the smaller but more intense games. I am sure other folks feel boxed out for one reason or another, and I do not fault event hosts for it, it is just something that happens.
As for there being so many events that folks tend to skip one weekend and tell themselves they can make another, for those of us who barely travel much to begin with, all those fields holding games every weekend are still far. Sure, every time I have gone to see Pagan and Team SK in Taylor it has been worthwhile, but for someone like me, those sort of trips are akin to panic episodes, and there has been many times where I simply do not go because I find myself making excuses about the trip.
I just want to get to see folks again, as Gimpalong might put it. I still do not see myself as a vet, simply because I am not part of the scene to the point where I can understand the direction things are going locally. I just fear that at some point, I will drift completely out of the scene.
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T6e9a
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Post by T6e9a on Jul 20, 2014 22:40:03 GMT -5
I doubt this speaks too much for any majority, but my lack of attendance to games is generally due to the gun projects (notice plural) that I always seem to be working on. And devoting $$ to one gun, and a setup for larger OPs, like Grayling.
But usually when I did go, I always packed the vehicle being driven to the brim with friends. As of lately, friends have gotten busy. I really only try to plan a trip to a game if one of them bothers me to go.
And if MTAC ever opened back up, I would be there every chance I got. Was pretty much born into Airsoft there and had most of my best Airsoft stories, games and memories there.
But as was mentioned before, a lot of people like to just set their hearts on one field and go nowhere else. Others probably never like to venture too deep into the 'Events' board.
Last few times I was at No Limits, I was there almost purely to tech and help out if anyone needed it. And I enjoy doing that. I don't really see myself being much of a player, but I still love the community and don't mind at all just being at a game and just hang out with people.
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R2zoo
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Post by R2zoo on Jul 20, 2014 22:43:16 GMT -5
Much of what has been said already is what I would agree with, except for an odd situation with myself. For me, Rec games work out best because quite frankly my kit does not suit events being held here in Michigan. Yes, folks would immediately say that I should just suck it up and wear woodland/3 color desert, but I like what I have, have put some work into gathering it all up, and I enjoy getting to actually wear it all for once. In the past I would find that event hosts would like to see me out there in my kit, and encourage folks to try and make some sort of effort for having kits away from the norm, only to find that people did not. Perhaps that is part of why the allowances have narrowed (and honestly, I read enough every day as to why). I am also not a radio person, nor do I belong to any team or even a casual group. Most folks that know me are because I tend to latch on to them when we meet up at some game. Some times it works out great, other times I just end up sitting in a bush all day after losing track of folks, but I still have a great time. How does this apply to the topic? I applaud what some event hosts are doing with trying to get that speedball vibe out. At the same time, there has been many events I have missed not only for personal reasons, but because quite frankly I feel completely out of sorts with them. I sincerely doubt that I could do events like Northern Light, or even some of the smaller but more intense games. I am sure other folks feel boxed out for one reason or another, and I do not fault event hosts for it, it is just something that happens. As for there being so many events that folks tend to skip one weekend and tell themselves they can make another, for those of us who barely travel much to begin with, all those fields holding games every weekend are still far. Sure, every time I have gone to see Pagan and Team SK in Taylor it has been worthwhile, but for someone like me, those sort of trips are akin to panic episodes, and there has been many times where I simply do not go because I find myself making excuses about the trip. I just want to get to see folks again, as Gimpalong might put it. I still do not see myself as a vet, simply because I am not part of the scene to the point where I can understand the direction things are going locally. I just fear that at some point, I will drift completely out of the scene. I find it completely relatable, as often times, I feel the same way. With a lot of organized teams, and groups going back years sometimes, showing up to the bigger events has made me feel like that odd guy out. That said, I make attempts to talk and learn peoples names and such, and have made a few friends along the way, but still not as easy for me to do as I would like. Hence I generally skip a game if its only me heading out, as I hate feeling that awkwardness of being the guy who doesn't know anyone. Its purely my own issues, as walking up to someone and chitchatting about this and that is difficult, yet ask me about something in my kit or my gun and ill ramble till you find an excuse to back away. I find it far easier to hit small REC games because of that, mostly because its generally a random tossup of players. CQB games are a great example of that, where I can show up, have some fun, leave. Not nearly on par with a lot of the field games, but helps with my social anxieties.
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Post by Gunslinger on Jul 21, 2014 0:50:50 GMT -5
To get me to go to local events I just like more of the MilSim style play.
I like objectives, I enjoy grabbing my cool crap and heading out to talk to other guys who have spent WAY to much money on their toys as well and B.Sing with them about games they have gone to etc.
I've gone to games and kinda got put on a side and didn't really tell any one my call sign and just played. But usually there is a different caliber of player who shows up to a actual event.
The strict camo restrictions I.E. The guys who enjoy showing the time they spent on their kits, mag restrictions not fifteen kids with 400 fps guns and each with a vest full of high caps that stay on full auto, fps restrictions (and knowing they will be enforced) and the history of the event host. If it's some one I have a history with as far as played along side or know from reading their posts here and finding out they aren't some kid promoting capture the flag on their parents farm then I would go more.
I always like objective based games driven by a cool host at a interesting and technical field, not one I'm going to have to change before I get in my car and head home that also would help.
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