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Post by Stinger on Jun 24, 2014 11:16:47 GMT -5
I'm sorry but since the time of man, the man with the biggest and fast gun wins the fight. This is totally wrong. There's plenty of instances where intelligence and strategy allowed a weak force to defeat a superior enemy. And it certainly applies in airsoft, as I can recall taking out people who had $1000 guns, and I was using my $140 gun. It was just because I knew what I was doing, and they got cocky because they spent more money. Now, certainly, there is nothing wrong with spending the money. I put $500 into my custom AEG and the thing is a beast. This segways into my next point... I shoot 395 FPS with 0.20-gram BBs (in fact, that is exactly what I chrono'd at for this event). I have a velocity variance of +/- 1 FPS (yes, very tight, it is nice). I use 0.25-gram BBs out on the field when playing, and I have approximately 375 FPS with those. I can accurately hit targets at 70 meters no problem. 80 meters is pushing it. 90 meters, the BBs hit the ground. It's all about what contacts the BB (hop-up system+inner barrel), not how much force is behind the BB. And it's all about tuning.
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Post by Marshy on Jun 24, 2014 11:25:19 GMT -5
So why should my 1200 dollar gun be limited to an fps that's lower then any field requirements. I'm sorry but since the time of man, the man with the biggest and fast gun wins the fight. BUT IM AM NOT EXCUSING THE 55 RPS P*. Because your $1200 doesn't need to shoot 500fps to be effective. As myself and several others have said, it is more than possible to achieve accuracy and range under 410fps ( I'm using this range, as it still allows for full auto use and covers the broadest range of replicas) I'm amazed that people still believe the fps = range/accuracy. Power is only a small part of the equation. There are a ton of members on this forum that have seen my Star FNC out shoot almost anything else out on the field. It's bone stock with the exception of a madbull 6.03 and a prowin hopup. I have confirmed kills at 250 ft+. Want to know what it chronos at? 289 fps with .25s. The way I look at it, be a stand up, model citizen for the polarstar community. I'd rather be the guy they say is a good example of how a player should run a polarstar. I'm not pushing the limit to see who I can hurt, I'm using my replica safely and responsibly. My mk18 has been in the 280-290 range for years. It's all about that barrel and hop up.
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Post by Combat Junkies Airsoft on Jun 24, 2014 11:33:56 GMT -5
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Post by rasputin824 on Jun 24, 2014 12:05:32 GMT -5
See and here's the problem with theses boards. I asked a question and make a single statement and was asking for an answer and i get nothing but attitude. So If my p* is limited bc of trigger response as a DMR what about AEGs. With a mostfet i have achieved the same response but theirs no limits on that please explain. No attitude from me. Just want to know your rules and reasoning .
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Post by Stinger on Jun 24, 2014 12:11:59 GMT -5
See and here's the problem with theses boards. I asked a question and make a single statement and was asking for an answer and i get nothing but attitude. So If my p* is limited bc of trigger response as a DMR what about AEGs. With a mostfet i have achieved the same response but theirs no limits on that please explain. No attitude from me. Just want to know your rules and reasoning . Nobody ever gave you attitude. You got several logical answers to your question. By the way...how did a MOSFET give you better trigger response? High-torque motor + high discharge-rate battery and good shimming gives good trigger response. Not a MOSFET
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inj
New Member
Just a lonely, solo Michigan airsofter
Posts: 57
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Post by inj on Jun 24, 2014 13:10:20 GMT -5
Nobody ever gave you attitude. You got several logical answers to your question. By the way...how did a MOSFET give you better trigger response? High-torque motor + Low Ratio Gears + high discharge-rate battery and good shimming gives good trigger response. Not a MOSFET Added in something you missed in bold. Mostly correct, but he could've been talking about a pre-cocking MOSFET. Even just a standard MOSFET will give slightly better trigger response and ROF though due to the lesser electrical resistance. It won't be more than 1-3rps, but it does make a difference.
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Post by Gimpalong on Jun 24, 2014 13:20:09 GMT -5
Rasputin,
Right now, as the current rules stand, you're fine to shoot your rifle (semi-auto only) at 540 FPS with .20s (2.7 joules). That's according to the MiA guidelines. Of course, individual event hosts may have variations on these regulations.
I think people may be taking issue with what basically amounts to you saying "I'm paying to win." Sure, having an expensive, very capable rifle is great, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't care about being courteous, respecting other players and putting their safety first. As others have pointed out, you can get great range without the need to throw a ton of energy down-range. As far as the "biggest and fast gun winning," airsoft is a game, right? That we all play to have fun, right?
In addition, the DMR/Sniper rules that we use in MI were basically developed when someone having a high-FPS/energy DMR/sniper rifle was a rarity. It used to take a lot of skill to build that kind of AEG, so you didn't see them very often and the tech really wasn't there to produce the sort of semi-auto trigger speeds that Polarstars can reach easily.
I can sympathize with your argument that restrictions should be based on FPS/energy output, not platform. There's no reason why a Polarstar should be specifically restricted if someone can build a high FPS/energy DMR AEG that performs exactly the same.
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Post by rasputin824 on Jun 24, 2014 13:38:51 GMT -5
I'm sorry my fellow airsofters but I've ran all sorts of AEG builds from DMR to pistols. I have achieved much with a btc spectre and chimera mosfets. In regards to the trigger response. And why is there NO 1.55 joule limit on all AEGs like all the p*s
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Post by Mosin on Jun 24, 2014 14:12:07 GMT -5
Well, as far as we've strayed away from the baseline I'd like to tie it all back and enforce the following from this point forward. The following below are going to be baseline for RAGE events, and will be updated momentarily after this:
OUTDOOR/OPEN FIELD ENGAGEMENT LIMITS • 1.0 - 340.9 fps (0.01j - 1.07j) - Arms length engagement limit
• 341.0 - 400.9 fps (1.08 - 1.49j) - 20 foot engagement limit
• 401.0 - 500.9 fps (1.50j - 2.32j) – 50 foot engagement limit, bolt action or permanent* semi-auto replicas only
• 501.0 - 539.9 fps (2.33j - 2.69j) - Bolt action only
• 540.0+ fps (2.7j+) - Prohibited.
10 fps leeway is given in either direction, not any more.
Polarstars can only chrono up to 1.55 joules, all P* shooters are subject to random on field chronograph to prevent on field tampering. Any Polarstar shooter found shooting significantly hotter than 1.55 joules will be ejected from the field as a safety violator, no questions.
Physics say going from 500 to 550 fps is only going to push your bb out about another 10 feet effectively, or 15 feet max. As mentioned before, Polarstars are capable of doing a lot more out of the box than even most upgraded AEGs, to level a playing field everything is measured in joules as well as FPS with a .20, so it doesn't matter what weight bb you shoot when you come up to chrono, because your energy output will still be the same(pending on results from whoever does that joule creep test with Polarstar).
If you're in this sport to hurt people, you've got issues I have neither the time nor inclination to deal with, we're in this to have fun and be safe. All the above rules are more stringent than what MiA currently enforces, but I'm ok with that policy because I know that as a bolt action rifle shooter with only about 25 bbs per mag, I tend to take my shots a good bit more serious than anyone else.
We've already mentioned that we're going to a semi-only model for all rifles, which means if we hear bursts and full auto and we run to where it came from and it's a rifle platform, not a belt fed, it'll be same rules as someone who is blind firing, and you'll be called out and asked to sit out the remainder of the game. Nine times out of ten as a ref standing next to someone who just recently got shot out, majority of the time they continue to get shot is because the shooter doesn't lay off the trigger finger long enough to hear the audible "Hit!".
Along with eliminating the aforementioned, we'll be turning away hicaps as well, for the same reason I mentioned with my sniper rifle -- smaller round counts make you think more often about what to engage. If we see people winding mags or pulling those strings, we'll ask that you walk to the parking lot, empty out all those bbs, and jam them into midcaps.
The difference between a customer and a participant in this sport is that customers attend recreational games. No rules for the most part (within reason), more anything goes attitude. If you attend a RAGE event, you are a participant, and you are agreeing to our rules enforced on field for everything from fps limits to mag capacity. If you don't agree with it, don't come to our games. I won't be the event host that ever has a goggle system shot out by a bb gun, or someone getting bbs embedded in their skin because the guy with the Polarstar thought if he cranked it to 600 fps it'd give him the advantage.
I'll be posting these FPS limits on our upcoming events, unless there is significant evidence why it would be a bad idea to impose what we've got there. I personally look forward to seeing all of you at our event in July, along with the big MilSim in August.
EDIT: Due to reading up on Lion Claws, I can see no reason why if they have it set at 1.55j, we should be any higher. Polarstars are to be locked at that velocity, due to "technically" making your gun semi only yet doing a trigger pull reduction mod a P* user could still legally shoot at 500.9 fps and still have a faster ROF than a 280fps w/ .2 upgraded AEG. To date it's the way we have hosted it, it's the way Pagan and Suicide Kings hosts it, and it's the way John Lu hosts it. Nobody seems to have a problem with it except players who find loopholes for abuse, which again, nobody is in the business of seriously hurting anyone out there.
Thank you,
Mosin Team RAGE Event Coordinator
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Post by Stinger on Jun 24, 2014 17:25:20 GMT -5
My dad has a friend high up at AT&T, so we got our issue escalated and a tech was sent out to my house today. Meaning I have internet access at home now, and my videos will start to come up on my YouTube channel soon. I will first put up the one of the P* shooter that everyone has requested. My regular videos (montage/normal gameplay) will follow over the next week, as I put a lot of editing into my projects. EDIT: The requested video of the P* guy claiming that he was shooting 470 FPS with 0.30-gram BBs is now online here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gbc26n4xM_U&feature=youtu.be
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Post by Pagan on Jun 24, 2014 19:28:43 GMT -5
Just for the record: 470 fps with .30g is 3.06j or 575fps with .20s If he was shooting that hot, he pretty much was in violation of every safety standard we use.
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Post by rasputin824 on Jun 24, 2014 20:08:24 GMT -5
I miss talked. I can't reach that fps with the set up I was cronoed with in the video. The 470 fps was with .20 but I was shooting .30 I was given a sticker and told 35 ft and semi only ( which is fine with me because my gun is always semi locked). I was in the middle of a gun fight i got messed up from behind, i was pissed, i messed my words up so! I admit to shooting 545 but only after lunch. I followed all the right channels and was lead a stray.
Bottom line is here I HAVE SEEN THE RULES I WILL FOLLOW THEM
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Post by snafu on Jun 24, 2014 20:15:58 GMT -5
I don't see it as being ridiculed but to each their own. Furthermore I don't think it was anyones intention to belittle you, but people take safety pretty seriously around here(myself included). I think we can all chalk this up to a learning experience and move on.
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Post by Stinger on Jun 24, 2014 20:33:17 GMT -5
I miss talked. I can't reach that fps with the set up I was cronoed with in the video. The 470 fps was with .20 but I was shooting .30 I was given a sticker and told 35 ft and semi only ( which is fine with me because my gun is always semi locked). I was in the middle of a gun fight i got messed up from behind, i was pissed, i messed my words up so! I admit to shooting 545 but only after lunch. I followed all the right channels and was lead a stray. Bottom line is here I HAVE SEEN THE RULES I WILL FOLLOW THEM Don't worry Rasputin, I don't think anyone here is accusing you of anything too serious, and nobody is threatening a ban. It is good that you will follow the rules in the future, even if you were under the belief that you followed the rules this time. I know personally from having played alongside you later on in the day, you were very careful (I was with you sneaking up to Tippmann Tower through the woods).
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Post by rasputin824 on Jun 24, 2014 21:00:19 GMT -5
Thank you. I'm not in this to hurt people.
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