No Limits REC Game 4/19

[Vic (Rattlehead)]

Don't have any footage of pics of the event, but seeing as there's no thread yet, I thought starting one would accelerate the picture/video posting.

Anyhow, first and foremost I wanted to apologize to a bunch of people for my complete and utter idiocy and lack of common sense/brain. At the 'carry the bomb' game type, I pushed at the house at the end of the game, and I FORGOT I had my kill rag on. I felt pretty damn stupid after that. So to anyone who was utterly confused by the guy in MARPAT with the black paintball mask with a kill rag on his right shoulder pushing towards them, I'm sorry. Won't happen again.

Also, at one of the games at the castle, I COMPLETELY forgot the 'semi only on the island' rule and shot some people in full auto from pretty close. I'm not running a P* or a LiPO setup or anything(It's a stock G&G M4 on 9.6), but that doesn't make it better. I didn't hear from any injuries so I'm happy I didn't cause too much trouble, but I did hear from other people that some were getting pretty pissed at me for that, so to those people, I sincerely apologize. Was my first SK event, and first time at No Limits, and I'm not used to switching back and forth between semi and full, and in the heat of the moment I completely forgot. It's no excuse, and I hope no one's too mad at me.

Also, to the guy who lost 2 PMAGS in an OD pouch last summer and got them back that day, I never got to see you. I found the pouch under some brush and gave it to a ref who gave it to Pagan and then to you. Just thought it was an amazing story that they'd been untouched and un-stepped on for the whole of the winter.

Was great meeting some new folks(Frank(Fear Roback)'s team), and seeing some familiar faces from Gambit(Auzzie, Zephyr, Sandman). Hope the turnout is as good if not better next time! And I promise I won't screw up next time!

[Ogre]

Wish I could have made it out.

As far as the mess ups on your part, try not to dwell on it. Shit happens and in the heat of battle you forget things. Pro airsofters like Jet DesertFox and Evike's Matt still makes those mistakes from time to time.

[Legionnaire]

"Pro"? I think you meant "fanboy idolized average joes".

I had a blast for my first No Limits game. Not sure when the next time i'll be able to make the hike from Grand Rapids again but I will definitely be making an effort. I enjoyed getting up to mid thigh in the water while wading through the reeds.

Blah blah, hit calling issues, blah blah first world problems.

My only real gripe was my repro Eotech EXPS3 being shot out. But, at the end of the day I went home happy.

[springs]

That was my first time out at No Limits. Had a great time, and my plus one not only didn't get a sandy vag and whimp out on coming, but had a lot of fun and is all for me dragging him out again. Now I've just got to get him a better job so he can be a proper gear whore and not have to suckle from my impulse-buying teat.

Buttmad as we all were getting during that bomb game where the hit calling, I think it eventually got to the point where a lot of people just decided to vent with a heavy trigger finger and a lot of yelling. I at least didn't see any face to face screaming matches, the absence of which is always a nice show of maturity.

I was also pretty pleased to see how the teams usually felt pretty even from where I was. Didn't see a bad case of the green nublin tide or the too-much-money-in-this-game tans.

About the only thing I was real disappointed about all day was how hard some people were ragging on "Walmart." Guy who had a springer with neon green rails and a stock. When I was trying to clear the house by myself at the end of the first bomb game, I popped into the room he was in and he bang-killed me, but I popped a round off I'd thought into his leg. There was that moment of "did we just get eachother," and I asked if I'd got him, and he gave me a really polite "Sorry, I don't think you got me." I shrugged, accepted the bang since he would have drilled my right in the throat otherwise, we laughed, shook hands and I took my long walk. He showed very good sportsmanship and if I'd made an issue of it, from the way he talked to me he would have taken a death too. And not thirty minutes later I was standing right by three guys who were being complete assbags to his face. Somebody else with a boonie and paintball mask chimed in before I could say anything that anybody who came out to a game like this with a springer had balls, and I for one agreed with that guy. Internet highfive to you if you read this.

[/rant]

Had a great time; I'm sure I'll be out to No Limits again in the future.

[Mosin]

This was probably my worst experience on the field since I've gone out there. Started the game out fresh with me hitting a kid right in the love handle and watching him flinch while I was ghillied up, only to turn around on the other side of the tree and shoot full auto in my direction and land a few on my shoulders. Called him an asshole and walked off, but I suppose it happens when you invite anyone and everyone to a game. The problem with me being ghillied up is nobody really saw where shots were coming from, so they either assumed friendly fire or a rogue ricochet from nowhere, and decided to keep on trucking along. This is really frustrating when you spend time crawling into a position and have a bolt action, I suppose in the future aiming for skin will have to be the new norm on players I don't know, but it still won't defeat the long shots I was hitting from outside of the island in the castle.

Kudos for the few of you that did call it, I watched some pretty ridiculous shots I didn't think would land and when they did and I saw the startled jump and the hands raised up it restored faith in humanity for a minute.

Got to put a lot of faces to names, which is always just about as fun for me as playing itself. Was cool to run with the SK dudes in the afternoon as sort of a murder squad as well as defending the castle with y'all.

Unfortunately that was probably my last rec game out at the field, personal thoughts from myself and a lot of the veteran airsofters in the community showed too much of the 30+ rps full auto high cap players wearing real military patches, and little to no hit calling. Perhaps rec games all together are spoiled for me in this regard, but if SK were to run maybe every other rec game a 16+ with a bit more restrictions, I'm sure it'd breathe life back into the older generation of airsofters into coming out, as hit calling and all the general shenanigans of what is associated with "rec games" are taken away when you place restrictions. Unfortunately I know the business side of it also means goodbye to 60% of your revenue, so I know it's a pipe dream.

Thank you Pagan for increasing game length to appease to the sniper portion of players, and for just generally putting on the game.

[rydeezy]

I wish Polar star m4's with five thousand round box mags weren't allowed.

[Pagan]

Apr 21, 2014 18:42:09 GMT -5 Mosin said:

Unfortunately that was probably my last rec game out at the field, personal thoughts from myself and a lot of the veteran airsofters in the community showed too much of the 30+ rps full auto high cap players wearing real military patches, and little to no hit calling. Perhaps rec games all together are spoiled for me in this regard, but if SK were to run maybe every other rec game a 16+ with a bit more restrictions, I'm sure it'd breathe life back into the older generation of airsofters into coming out, as hit calling and all the general shenanigans of what is associated with "rec games" are taken away when you place restrictions. Unfortunately I know the business side of it also means goodbye to 60% of your revenue, so I know it's a pipe dream.

It saddens me to hear this, but I unfortunately understand.

I look at REC games in two ways.

#1: An opportunity for players who can't make it to/ are under age to get to play events larger than normal back yard airsoft games.
#2: An opportunity to just get out and play.

I try to make sure during my briefings to cover the topic of hit calling, but for some people it falls on deaf ears. It's been my experience that a player who does this, does it any type of event, not just rec games. I've run into hit calling issue for the same people at milsims and scenario games as well as at rec games. It's the person, not necessarily the type of event.

I went on a full blown rampage after being lit up constantly while I was standing at spawn with my BACK facing the playing field. As I walked up to the castle, I was pelted with shots as I was waving my arms signalling I wasn't actively play at the moment.

To limit the age at these rec games would take away the opportunity for younger players and players who aren't interested in Milsim style play a chance to play at a cool field with a large group of other players.

I ask as a host, if you are running across players who are not calling hits, or being a general jackass, bring it to the refs attention. If we don't know something is going wrong, we don't have an opportunity to try and fix it.

The box mag thing... yeah I'm not a fan my self, same thing with the guy running 12 high caps. But it's rec game it comes with the territory.

[Irish]

Been quite some time since I was at a recreation game but boy did I have a good time. Everyone was relatively easy going and pretty welcoming, the only major issue I had was the insane amount of mud and paint (more the paint than mud) that managed to get on my gear. On a side note those Polarstars sound and look fuckin' amazing.

First game (Village/Hills) - It was alright, sort of just turned into a stalemate and not much happened the entire match. There just wasn't any clear cut objective so most people got comfortable and stayed where they were.

Second & Third games (Fort) - The fort is always great fun and props to Vic for owning up to his mistakes. I had a bit of trouble as my firearm is solely full auto so I may have fired off two or three rounds at a time but as far as I'm aware I wasn't causing an issue.

Fourth game (Eastern Swamp) - I believe this was after/during lunch when we had our game in the Eastern paintball field. IT SUCKED. TDM is not a great game type for this field in any shape or form. It just became stagnant very quickly and barely anyone on either side was attempting to break the enemies lines, more than likely because they were afraid to lose they're two lives.

Fifth game (Bomb game) - This was a great concept but it was executed poorly, mainly due to lack of communication. Another major problem was that the green team during this time seemed to have a large issue calling their hits and the tan team (Which I was on) had very little cover to make use of so it felt like a cluster fuck. (Also rolled with the two tone springer who has been mentioned on the thread and he was definitely a solid bro.

Sixth and Seventh - This was when we split off into two groups, I participated at the battles that occurred at the fort and it was definitely the best fun I had all day. It was no longer over crowded, we had literally no problems with hit takers and team communication was relatively good.

P.S This is a suggestion for Pagan, why don't you wear an orange vest like all the other referees/staff? At two hundred feet it can be difficult for people to make out that you're not participating and flailing your arms in the air doesn't really help anyone, not to mention you had gear on so it was an easy mistake for people to make.

[Pagan]

Apr 21, 2014 20:12:34 GMT -5 Irish said:

P.S This is a suggestion for Pagan, why don't you wear an orange vest like all the other referees/staff? At two hundred feet it can be difficult for people to make out that you're not participating and flailing your arms in the air doesn't really help anyone, not to mention you had gear on so it was an easy mistake for people to make.

I wasn't wearing a vest for a few reasons:

#1 That was the ONE game I got to play in the entire day. It doesn't shouldn't matter if I'm a ref or a player. When some one is standing IN spawn with their back turned with no weapon in hand, it's not necessary to sit and pelt them with bbs, especially when they are clearly signalling that they are either hit or not playing.
#2 I gave my vest to another member of SK who was on the island reffing, not that it matters. I get shot more wearing a bright orange safety vest than I do when I get to play a game.

[Patriot]

I enjoyed the game,It let me test out my FN. Anyone get pictures?

[Mosin]

Apr 21, 2014 19:14:25 GMT -5 Pagan said:

I look at REC games in two ways.

#1: An opportunity for players who can't make it to/ are under age to get to play events larger than normal back yard airsoft games.
#2: An opportunity to just get out and play.

I absolutely agree, and I even told you in person that it's disappointing how boring this spring/summer season of airsoft has been. It's unfortunate that the only thing really going on this side of the state is a Rec games, but it's appreciated that you're at least allowing players to get out and shoot replicas.

Apr 21, 2014 19:14:25 GMT -5 Pagan said:

I try to make sure during my briefings to cover the topic of hit calling, but for some people it falls on deaf ears. It's been my experience that a player who does this, does it any type of event, not just rec games. I've run into hit calling issue for the same people at milsims and scenario games as well as at rec games. It's the person, not necessarily the type of event.

I know morning briefings are hard, but because you have such a larger demographic you could literally get away with a "No warnings you're gone" policy on a few things and after the first guy or two you kicked off the field I'm sure we'd see a lot of shape up in that aspect. Overall though, my point wasn't that MilSim is perfect and you never run into assholes, because more often than not (Especially at the National events) players that spend $40, $100, or even $200+ on an event don't want to admit they got tagged out and spend downtime walking. The main point behind my comparison is that the hit calling nonsense is significantly decreased when you place restrictions on events, such as age and magazine capacity limits - which is something I understand hurts overall profits, and therefore probably won't ever happen on that field.

Apr 21, 2014 19:14:25 GMT -5 Pagan said:

I ask as a host, if you are running across players who are not calling hits, or being a general jackass, bring it to the refs attention. If we don't know something is going wrong, we don't have an opportunity to try and fix it.

I mentioned to multiple SK dudes several times about this situation, but the problem with a rec is while I may finally track down a ref and point out where the kid was, chances are good he's on his way back to respawn. I'm not typically one of those guys that claims he has a laser beam gun that can shoot across the field, but I've got a 10x powered scope on my bolt action, and I shoot pink bbs which are the easiest things in the world to track until they reach target. Factor this in with the visual confirmation of a flinch on impact and I can say with 99% certainty if I hit someone or not. One thing I did notice some of your dudes doing was after a player would be tracked down they followed him for a few minutes during a game to see if he was legitimately cheating, so I know that effort was being made. It's just unfortunate when kids attempt to play a game based on honor and cheating is as high as it is.

I've never really had a "bad time" at one of the rec games, but I am aware that events like this aren't really helping Michigan get back on her feet for ops and events. More often than not kids want to just come out and shoot their polarstars and box mags and they know that nobody is going to turn away their money so it's pretty much left at that, which is why rec games flourish. Again, none of this is your fault or in your control Pagan, and I'm sure you're well aware of that. But again, as I said in person, the overall demographic of airsoft at these events will typically almost always be sub-par for anyone looking to do anything more than pull a trigger at an opponent.

EDIT: One more thing that should be a warning, sit out the game, get off the field violation I believe is the shooting of unarmed players. I understand it's airsoft, but blatant disregard for visual confirmation on targets prior to squeezing the trigger I'd argue is as unsafe as playing without eye protection. Might be worth a mention in the next one you run.

[guitardrumr]

Apr 21, 2014 20:12:34 GMT -5 Irish said:

Been quite some time since I was at a recreation game but boy did I have a good time. Everyone was relatively easy going and pretty welcoming, the only major issue I had was the insane amount of mud and paint (more the paint than mud) that managed to get on my gear. On a side note those Polarstars sound and look fuckin' amazing.

First game (Village/Hills) - It was alright, sort of just turned into a stalemate and not much happened the entire match. There just wasn't any clear cut objective so most people got comfortable and stayed where they were.


Fifth game (Bomb game) - This was a great concept but it was executed poorly, mainly due to lack of communication. Another major problem was that the green team during this time seemed to have a large issue calling their hits and the tan team (Which I was on) had very little cover to make use of so it felt like a cluster fuck. (Also rolled with the two tone springer who has been mentioned on the thread and he was definitely a solid bro.

That first game Green got stuck in the house very early on. With 30 yards of open ground between us and cover, there was no point in trying to move, as you discovered later when defending that same area. Largely though, I'm in agreement on the Bomb game. We (Green) had a plan to move the bomb through the woods, but ran into a small group of tan defending the fence line (with at least one person who was not calling hits), and were forced to rethink. I didn't see anyone on Green obviously not calling hits, but I was also not on the front line on the hill for most of that game, so I just may not have been in view.

Other than that one spot in the woods on the Bomb game, the only issue I had with hit calling was while defending the castle later in the day. I very clearly hit a player on the island near the short bridge. He even waved at me, and I thought he was calling his hit until he ducked out and started laying fire my way. That same game, while attacking the castle, I got lit up hard by someone who may have been a bit too close for their MED, as I have a nice big blood blister on my shoulder from that one.

Otherwise, I had a great time, as did my +2. We will definitely be back May 10th.

Big thanks to Pagan and SK for putting on these games. Even with the issues that come up, you guys do a great job, and clearly try to keep issues to a minimum. If possible, I think splitting the larger group in two earlier in the day (if fields are available) could help with some of the problems, as I also noticed much less BS and shouts about hit calling later on when we split up.

Also a thank you to those who I purchased items from at the field. I don't think I've ever been a part of a group like this that is so willing to help each other out. My first game out last month, I had issues with fogging and had no less than 3 people offer to loan me goggles, and that hospitality maintained itself this time as well. I honored to be a part of such a great group of people.

[triggs]

Apr 21, 2014 16:39:23 GMT -5 Legionnaire said:

"Pro"? I think you meant "fanboy idolized average joes".

I had a blast for my first No Limits game. Not sure when the next time i'll be able to make the hike from Grand Rapids again but I will definitely be making an effort. I enjoyed getting up to mid thigh in the water while wading through the reeds.

Blah blah, hit calling issues, blah blah first world problems.

My only real gripe was my repro Eotech EXPS3 being shot out. But, at the end of the day I went home happy.

I'll hit ya up next time we plan on going, the more people we can pack the more efficient (and cheaper on gas) it is for us all.

Anyways onto the game,

I could also echo the hit calling time...but yea it's beating a dead horse. I would just start watching particular groups. I know after the first game I heard a good bit of grumbling from tan (and witnessed enough of it myself), as a fellow field operator I hear that sorta stuff and start watching the offending team as a whole, and start narrowing it down, if I have to, to teams/players. Having a ref watching you constantly does wonders for their playing, yea it feels like you're being singled out...but then you wouldn't be feeling that way if you were honest eh?

Thanks to Pagan for running a great day, I left sore but still had a good time. Don't worry about always saying hey, it's a crazy job running games, if you don't keep on task stuff starts running behind and then the locals get restless!

To whoever had that AOR1 kit and rifle I mistook for Knife, my bad haha!

Sadly my Contour decided it wasn't going to autobalance for daylight so everything is over-exposed...something to fix for the next time it seems.

EDIT: On the note of attacking/defending the village (1st and 3rd game).
It's not that bad if you keep moving, there isn't a lot of cover but you can make it work, just gotta try.

Oh did anyone find a tan Condor neck gator? I have no idea if it was even in my pouch at the start of the day, but I couldn't find it when asked, and have torn apart my room after getting back to no avail, so it's possible I dropped it in the staging area? Not a big deal...one of these days I'll find all the ones I bought as "replacements" and be able to have a huge firesale...

[Gunny87]

Yeah they tore down a lot of cover at the back of the urban field since the first game we had this season because they are rebuilding that portion of the field but due to the lack of cover it made defending that position extremely difficult as a result and that became very apparent during the first round of the day when green was starting from that side of the field.

While it's great that we're seeing a larger number of players attending these games unfortunately it presents additional challenges which seemed to be remedied by splitting into two smaller groups which really seemed to alleviate hit calling issues and other problems that we were experiencing earlier.

Per usual rec games usually have issues that we don't see at MILSIM events like Mosin mentioned especially when you have stricter uniform and magazine requirements.

While I was reffing Mosin did reach out to me to inform me of players that weren't calling their hits and one of the times that he called me over by the time I had got to him, the player in question was already gone.

Also unfortunately there aren't as many fields in operation for airsoft as there used to be years ago. Considering that fields like Charlotte, SFOD, and Lowell to name a few are no longer around we saw players coming from as far as Grand Rapids which is great, but it goes to show that people are willing to travel for a chance to play airsoft.

And with the field owners of Action Paintball being as accommodating to airsofters compared to other paintball fields (which I won't call out) we have to take the bad with the good.

But with that being said we're certainly learning how to improve gameplay with these larger number of players attending and hopefully will be able to bring a better playing experience to everyone.

I have some ideas which I will discuss with the team regarding this and of course if anyone has any feedback please feel free to let us know.

[mayhemft3italy]

Yes on behalf of Team Mayhem, Thank you Pagan and all of the suicide kings. For refereeing the games and keeping the games going. We all had a great time and we cannot wait for the next rec-game. Honestly the hit calling was not an issue to me, it happens. Just keep shooting is my philosophy. But I give two thumbs up to the players that came to play, and most importantly came to have fun. It was a great turn out which is really good for the airsoft community. We all participate in these events because we love the game so let the bad blood stay on the field. Thanks to everyone for making my first rec-game a great experience.