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Post by Phantom Reaper on Dec 8, 2014 1:58:20 GMT -5
Meh,I get this is supposed to be innovative and blah blah blah but I don't see the hype, then again I don't see the big deal about P*'s,DG's, or even the SMP. I mean I understand the frustration AEG's and GBBR's can bring, as well as the advantages these HPA can offer, for some reason I just have no interest in them, it will be interesting to see how well they sell, but that's as far as my interest goes.
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Post by Gimpalong on Dec 8, 2014 10:39:38 GMT -5
From what I understand a few production models have made it out to the general public and more should follow over the next month or so. Check this FB Group for reviews and tear downs. I called TCP North on the 4th and clerk said he could have one for me in "a few days" if i came in and ordered it. Thanks for letting me know. I posted on their FB page, but haven't received a reply. Whenever I go in there and ask about airsoft the clerk always seems to be a bit exasperated. Like "why aren't you playing paintball?" Anyway, I'm going to give it another month or two for supply to catch up and for stores to actually get the guns in stock. Wait for a few more reviews to come out.
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Bison
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Post by Bison on Dec 8, 2014 14:47:50 GMT -5
I've been hearing pretty good reviews so far. Most common issues are with tuning full auto which is an easy fix. Mine comes in on the 11th so ill post some pics when i have time.
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Post by Cats (Doom) on Dec 8, 2014 20:08:22 GMT -5
Meh,I get this is supposed to be innovative and blah blah blah but I don't see the hype, then again I don't see the big deal about P*'s,DG's, or even the SMP. I mean I understand the frustration AEG's and GBBR's can bring, as well as the advantages these HPA can offer, for some reason I just have no interest in them, it will be interesting to see how well they sell, but that's as far as my interest goes. I think you really have to have owned a Tippman Mod98/98Custom to fully appreciate what everyone beleives Tippman may be bringing to the table. Gimp I really beleive TCP north couldnt give two shits about airsoft; they just see it as something else to sell just like MTG, Warhammer, and all that other stuff they sell these days. Ive really been hoping the release of this blaster will change their approch to airsoft, but I wont hold my breath.
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Post by cqbr on Dec 8, 2014 20:28:45 GMT -5
This seems like a gun without a proper home. but rather one that they are trying to force onto paintball players who wanna try out airsoft but still use a Tippman brand gun.
It's not practical (IMO at least) to get a bunch of the Tippman mags and repetitively pop C02 capsules in them, and the pistol grip HPA/C02 line is too similar to a PolarStar. I get the cost difference of the rigs between HPA and C02 like the guy in the video on page four explained, but I feel like new players aren't going to want an air powered gun like this for their first gun. Then on the other end of the spectrum, experienced players who have been playing a while are gonna end up going for the PolarStar like they would anyways.
If they're just going for the paintball transition market, they should definitely have it pretty well captured. I just figured they went through all the trouble to create their own operating system and would make a better attempt to be an actual airsoft gun competitor rather than just a novelty gun. *shrug*
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Post by Gunny87 on Dec 8, 2014 21:15:28 GMT -5
I personally see it as a cheaper and simpler way to get a reliable HPA/CO2 capable airsoft gun that works out of the box with very little to no tuning (other than FPS/ROF). I would rather spend the money on the 12oz mags and a box of 12oz CO2 cartridges then spend $50 on a freaking GBBR magazine that only can hold 30bbs. Yeah you can use propane which may cost less over the long run. But again, that's just my opinion.
And yeah you don't get the same kick as a GBBR or a Daytona Gun, but you get more "recoil" than you would with a P*/SMP/Valken V12 which doesn't provide any recoil/blowback effect.
But then you can spend $70 on a tank and rig if you want to run an external set up and use regular AEG magazines. So you have options that you wouldn't have otherwise with another HPA gun or a GBBR for that matter.
To buy a P* fusion engine dropped in a G&G Combat machine will set you back at least $650 for just the gun itself and then you're set back another $200+ on the low end for a air rig and smaller/cheaper HPA tank. Then with the P* Fusion Engine you have to know how to adjust the FCU (which doesn't require you to be a genius, but still), get the right nozzle and set your PSI appropriately.
I think the Tippmann M4 will not only appeal to the former paintballer who used to own a Tippmann paintball gun, but to an airsofter who wants to experiment in the HPA game but can do so at a much more affordable rate. And while most of the parts are proprietary at least you can still swap out the inner barrel and I'm sure the market will open to some extent when it comes to upgrades for the Tippmann M4 platform with time.
And hopefully we'll see that Tippmann reliability which also provide another advantage compared to most GBBRS, a Daytona Gun, the P* Fusion Engine and other HPA options.
If you don't like the external line and tank, at least you have the gas in magazine option.
Yes you do give up some customization (both internally and externally) that you could otherwise achieve with an AEG, or GBBR or other HPA alternative. But seeing how much support there has been for Tipmmann products in the past, I would say it's safe to assume that there will be a huge amount of support for this in the future. If it's well received by the airsoft community.
If in the end it brings some paintballers (hopefully the desirable ones) over to support our community and positively contribute to it by supporting stores for spending money and fields by increasing attendance, while appealing to airsofters as well, then hopefully it's enough for this product to be considered a success, but only time will tell.
I considered one myself, but I wanted to use one of my current AEGs since I had it already upgraded to my liking with everything I wanted and still be able to use my AEG magazines, which everyone knows I have enough of, so for me the SMP was a better choice.
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Bison
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Post by Bison on Dec 12, 2014 22:04:02 GMT -5
I havent had time to shoot it yet, but it has a pretty nice body. The internal parts are pretty beefy and remind me of my old 98 custom. My only cons so far are the plastic rails (replaced with RS Knights Armament), the buffer tube is thick so making stock length adjustments is difficult, the A2 pistol grip tends to put more pressure on your ring finger compared to me RS A2 grip (ill be grinding the nub off), and the warning text on the lower. Pretty happy so far. I'll update when I have time to shoot it.
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Breathe
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Post by Breathe on Dec 13, 2014 10:47:20 GMT -5
Excellent news Bison. I'll be getting one for myself as soon as I get the cash. Tax time maybe?
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Bison
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Post by Bison on Dec 20, 2014 7:14:39 GMT -5
I finally had a chance to put some rounds through the Tippmann M4 and can safely say that this is without a doubt the most fun airsoft gun I've ever shot!
The feedback is extremely crisp compared to a GBBR due to the faster cycle rate, which results in more perceived feedback. It's difficult to call this recoil however, since the gun fires from an open bolt. The muzzle dips down when the bolt slams home via the aid of the buffer tube and then levels out after the round is fired. The result is a high level of feedback without a sense of traditional recoil. I will say that your optic will move off target if you do not properly shoulder the rifle. Also, the rate of fire adjustment is extremely precise for a mechanical setup.
The noise level is comparable to a bullpup style GBBR such as the WE L85. VERY LOUD! The buffer spring even rattles which reminds me of the old M16-A2s in basic. I'm looking forward to using this in a CQB setting just for the intimidation factor.
I haven't had a chance to fire outdoors in daylight yet so I can't make a call on performance, but as long as the Tippmann is comparable to the range and accuracy of a gas pistol, the fun factor of the feedback and noise along with the ability to use AEG mags will make this my go to gat. I haven't tried the gas in mag setup, but for anyone unsure of HPA rigs, I couldn't even tell the line was there when doing some room clearing drills. I'll post more once I find time to sling some rounds outside in daylight.
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Post by Ogre on Dec 20, 2014 12:37:42 GMT -5
From what I've been hearing people have been making 230ft+ shots just with the stock barrel and hop up. If so, that really impressive. If that holds true that means Tippmann came out with a better hop up design that what Prowin or TM have had.
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Post by Stinger on Dec 23, 2014 14:03:08 GMT -5
From what I've been hearing people have been making 230ft+ shots just with the stock barrel and hop up. I find that very unlikely. That's pushing 70 meters. The guys accurately shooting that far have normally done quite a bit of modding/tuning to their hop-up systems.
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Post by Gunny87 on Dec 23, 2014 14:21:13 GMT -5
From what I've been hearing people have been making 230ft+ shots just with the stock barrel and hop up. I find that very unlikely. That's pushing 70 meters. The guys accurately shooting that far have normally done quite a bit of modding/tuning to their hop-up systems. I don't think it's unlikely. It all comes down to the hop up unit design providing the best the air seal as well as putting effective and efficient backspin on a bb. I wouldn't be surprised if Tippmann improved on the hop up design, and is achieving the range that Ogre mentioned what other Tipmmann M4 owners are achieving. The typical airsoft hop up unit that most airsoft guns (AEGs in this case) utilize, provide a pretty bad air seal right out of the box. Bison on our team is estimated he's getting 200ft+ feet stock with his Tippmann M4. It uses a proprietary hop up chamber and nub. He shared a pic of the nub and it look much better than the stock nub design used in most airsoft guns. If he uses heavier bb's and ups his PSI, there's no doubt in my mind that it'll shoot 230ft+. Now that may be at a higher velocity that would surpass the legal limit at a sanctioned airsoft game, but it's probably achievable with little or no modification.
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Post by Ogre on Dec 23, 2014 14:29:36 GMT -5
Flat Hop + Orga or Miracle Barrel. Instant DMR build. I'm gonna hold off on getting one until someone figures out how to convert the gun to an M16. With the reviews these things are getting though, I would be surprised if we see some new tippmann rifles later this year. An AK would be nice.
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Post by Stinger on Dec 23, 2014 14:32:22 GMT -5
Flat Hop + Orga or Miracle Barrel. Instant DMR build. That's not stock. Bison on our team is estimated he's getting 200ft+ feet stock with his Tippmann M4. It uses a proprietary hop up chamber and nub. He shared a pic of the nub and it look much better than the stock nub design used in most airsoft guns. If he uses heavier bb's and ups his PSI, there's no doubt in my mind that it'll shoot 230ft+. Now that may be at a higher velocity that would surpass the legal limit at a sanctioned airsoft game, but it's probably achievable with little or no modification. Is he hitting targets at that range? If so, that's impressive. Otherwise if it's just reaching out that far but is inaccurate, all it really shows is that you can put power behind a BB with an HPA setup. Big deal
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Post by Gunny87 on Dec 23, 2014 14:37:38 GMT -5
Is he hitting targets at that range? If so, that's impressive. Otherwise if it's just reaching out that far but is inaccurate, all it really shows is that you can put power behind a BB with an HPA setup. Big deal I have no idea. Bison will have to answer that.
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