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Post by slippy on Feb 24, 2014 18:23:48 GMT -5
I would have just continued the thread I started back in July but it has since been locked. Anyways I stated that an un-named company was there to get feedback on two prototype airsoft replicas at OP: Blackjack down in LaPorte, IN. Well I called it. It was Tippmann all the way. The just released a video today on it. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ccq6EH0JKCoEnjoy!
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Post by snafu on Feb 24, 2014 18:52:09 GMT -5
I want to be the first one to say I embrace our paintball overlords. That looks like a really well thought out design. If it's anything like their paintball guns I expect them to be big quality at a reasonable price.
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Post by slippy on Feb 24, 2014 18:58:59 GMT -5
I messed around with it a bit at the OP and it seems pretty damn solid. I won't buy one because I already have a P* but if I remember right I would like to say that the price point is mid $400
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Post by Gunny87 on Feb 24, 2014 19:34:54 GMT -5
If they can sell it around or less than the price of a KWA LM4 or a KJW GBBR, even without being a GBBR itself, it should be competitive.
I like that you have the option for either a remote set up or cartridge in the magazine. Will be curious to see how it performs.
It not being electronic is also nice.
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Post by Legionnaire on Feb 24, 2014 20:05:37 GMT -5
So its essentially either a Polarstar or a C02 non blowback? Not seeing the real advantage here.
External lines will forever be a no for me so I'll skip that part.
The magazine cartridge option has left me with some questions. - How many bb's does the magazine hold? - If its a low cap/the C02 cartridge capacity exceeds the number of bb's/shots the magazine allows, will I be able to remove the magazine to reload or is the rest of the cartridge wasted due to the "puncture at insertion" design?
Regardless of the answers to those, I'll be sticking to AEG's until I leave the sport. Innovation is great, but its not always needed.
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Post by Gunny87 on Feb 24, 2014 20:09:55 GMT -5
So its essentially either a Polarstar or a C02 non blowback? Not seeing the real advantage here. Simplicity and Reliability. Two things that Tippmann is known for. But I wonder the same things like how many bb's does the magazine hold. Either way another option isn't a bad thing.
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Post by slippy on Feb 24, 2014 21:46:15 GMT -5
Mid cap mags (around 80 I believe). There is recoil. Wow, why comment at all Legionnaire? You don't have to use factory mags if you want to run a remote. Honestly it feels a little like shooting a DG for a lot less money. I won;t buy one but they are pretty cool.
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Post by O'Dwah on Feb 24, 2014 21:53:39 GMT -5
Seems pretty damn legit to me, and coming from Tippmann, and their reliability in the paintball industry, one can only hope it transitions to airsoft.
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Post by slippy on Feb 24, 2014 22:08:34 GMT -5
Oh they are. It will pretty much be an HPA system at an HPA equivalent "entry" price.
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Post by Legionnaire on Feb 24, 2014 23:25:13 GMT -5
Mid cap mags (around 80 I believe). There is recoil. Wow, why comment at all Legionnaire? You don't have to use factory mags if you want to run a remote. Honestly it feels a little like shooting a DG for a lot less money. I won;t buy one but they are pretty cool. Because my opinion and concerns are just as important as yours. "Wow", I didn't know that was a hard concept to understand. If you had actually read my post thoroughly before attempting to insult my intelligence you would have come across where I said that "external lines will forever be a no for me so I'll skip that part". Thus, your comment regarding the use of standard aeg vs. Co2 magazines is moot in regards to the concerns and questions that I raised. Instead of assuming that we have all "messed around with it" you could instead post links rather than a super vague video as to where you are getting your information on its apparent recoil, and how it shoots like a DG. Another concern for me is the hop up. It screams proprietary. While I have heard of (never owned a paintball gun myself) Tippmann's reliability, I have concern in the limited amount of aftermarket parts that will be available. The video says that nothing on the receiver is compatible with aftermarket parts (internals, pistol grip, etc.). A comment by someone on Arnies says that it looks to be 1:1 scale. Does that mean it would be Milspec compatible? If it does, that is just another step in the direction of a lack of aftermarket airsoft accessories. Looking at it from an HPA standpoint I like the concept (despite my dislike of the HPA system in airsoft). The adjustable ROF seems like a great idea as the max ROF is not stupidly high like it can be on some P*'s. The simple switch from 400 to 300fps is also great as it eliminates the need for a spring change in the gearbox or a cylinder swap. This does however limit someone who would maybe like to run their gun at 350fps or 400+ for a DMR setup. The price is also nice for those looking for an HPA rig.
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Post by slippy on Feb 24, 2014 23:39:03 GMT -5
The "wow" was geared towards your inherent lack of knowledge about puncture upon insertion. No links are necessary as first hand experience allows me to make these claims. The internals are proprietary, to my relief the engineers were quite enthusiastic about aftermarket support in the form of tightbores and different length inners. Tippmann's reliability is hands down the best in paintball, hopefully that carries over. Stocks and rail system are mil-spec so most things will work. As for pistol grips the engineers had to dremel out a small bit on a RS grip to get it to fit. miairsoft.proboards.com/thread/47890/prototype-hpa-replica-revieled-blackjackHere's the link to my original post for a more in-depth review of the prototypes.
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Post by Legionnaire on Feb 24, 2014 23:52:13 GMT -5
Well then instead of being a smart ass how about you enlighten me? The same question I asked was asked over on Arnies so I'm not the only one with the concern.
The link you provided says that the magazines are $20 a pop? Is that still the case? If someone wanted to carry a decent load (say 6 mags + 1 in the gun) your looking at an additional $120 (provided one of the magazines comes with the gun). That plus Co2 plus any external accessories you might want is putting you at (or above) a P*. Not to practical from the Co2 side of things, IMO. HPA, sure.
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Post by slippy on Feb 25, 2014 0:13:39 GMT -5
Mag with Co2 cartridge gets put into magwell. As the mag hits full insertion the seal is pierced and the cylinder seals against the body. Once you drop the mag the seal created by upward pressure of the mag is broken thus all remaining Co2 is instantly gone. Essentially making "combat reloads" horribly ineffective. I have no idea if that is still the price point for mags. Though if it is that ins't terrible as far as gas mags are concerned.
It is my belief that as a Co2 system it will not be terribly impressive simply for the reason that you stated above. However, as an HPA system it will be a bargain for a few reasons.
1. It uses the less expensive HO HPA tanks (roughly 800 psi output) with only a simple $20 air rig versus the Polarstar with requires you to have an input pressure of no more than 200 psi. So with that you either have to buy an SLP HPA tank (200 psi output) and use an SLP air rig ($80) or you can use the HO HPA which is a cheaper tank but you have to buy an expensive air rig such as a firebase for $160 2. As an HPA gun you can use standard mags at an exceptionally low price considering the alternative. 3. HPA is far more consistent than it's Co2 counterpart and isn;t effected nearly as much by the environment in which you're playing.
With a base price of $450 (last known estimate upon talking with the engineers) plus $175 for the biggest and baddest tank with a basic air rig you'll be looking at a cost of $625 for a full set up. At that price they may very well storm the market.
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Post by Cats (Doom) on Feb 25, 2014 1:50:34 GMT -5
Compatible rear of and forward of the receiver with the AR platform, as in real AR platform?
I got a list of specification questions about this thing a mile long; I can't wait for an official announcement.
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Post by Tank on Feb 25, 2014 9:10:18 GMT -5
It sounds like they should have taken some design queues from Tiberius Arms. Their magazines re-seal upon removal from the gun. I use to own a T-8.
Tippmanns quality is still fairly high, although it was better before they sold out and the son created that other brand, whose name eludes me right now. I remember buying a used Tippmann Carbine as my first paintball gun and it was leaking everywhere. I sent it in to them and they put a new bolt in the gun and all new orings and didn't charge me a thing. They also had it back in my hands in 3 days.
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