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Post by specks159 on Apr 15, 2013 8:50:20 GMT -5
You can adjust your motor and gearset in order to improve efficiency. The higher torque your motor, the more efficient. For a maximum efficiency setup you want to get the highest torque motor you can find. A frankentorque is the popular choice. This is a general term used to describe a chaoli armature (stock dboys) fit in a neo magnet can. Chaoli armatures have something like 32 TPA. The drawback is that these are very slow, so now change gear ratios in order to achieve the rps you want from the gun. I may look into changing out the motor, at a later date, but I already have a different one in mind. Casper has been walking me through the modification/upgrade process and already pointed me to a decent high torque motor. Thank you for the input though, I hadn't really thought of the inefficient motor hurting my battery performance. I'm not sure why I didn't think of it, but I didn't none-the-less. Also, a good shim job is essential to efficiency, as bad shimming is the major source of mechanical resistance in the gearbox. If you really want to go all out you can polish the piston rails and gearbox, but that's optional and only if you want to squeeze every ounce if performance out of the gun. Also, I personally would choose a 7.4V lipo over a 9.6 nimh as you can get a battery with a high enough discharge rating to handle nearly anything the gun can throw at it, but if you're trying to maximize battery performance it shouldn't matter too much which battery you use, as long as it's high quality.
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Post by Tank on Apr 15, 2013 9:07:47 GMT -5
I have a 9.6 volt 5000mah battery that I used for my MK 43. If you are looking? I have one for you. Wired to Deans. They are Sub C cells thou. Thanks Bones, I ordered two LiPOs and I'm hoping they get here with enough time to get then installed by the No Limits game next Saturday. I also bought a MOSFET that should be here Wednesday, as well as a new micro switch that should be here mid week as well. I bought the new switch since my old one stuck twice on me, during testing. I guess the 14Awg high efficiency wiring let too much current flow. Also, a good shim job is essential to efficiency, as bad shimming is the major source of mechanical resistance in the gearbox. If you really want to go all out you can polish the piston rails and gearbox, but that's optional and only if you want to squeeze every ounce if performance out of the gun. Also, I personally would choose a 7.4V lipo over a 9.6 nimh as you can get a battery with a high enough discharge rating to handle nearly anything the gun can throw at it, but if you're trying to maximize battery performance it shouldn't matter too much which battery you use, as long as it's high quality. The gearbox has already been re-shimmed, the rails the piston travels on and the channel the tappet travels in has been polished as well. Two 7.4V 5000mAh 20C LiPO batteries should be arriving this week. They were ordered over the weekend.
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Bones
New Member
Hellfish! Whaaaaat.
Posts: 538
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Post by Bones on Apr 15, 2013 9:21:41 GMT -5
You are all set then.
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Post by Timm on Apr 15, 2013 13:23:36 GMT -5
Are you putting the battery underneath the barrel?
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Post by Tank on Apr 15, 2013 13:50:49 GMT -5
Are you putting the battery underneath the barrel? This is why I said hopefully with enough time to install it. I don't know where it will fit. The dimensions of the batteries that I bought will likely dictate an install in the box mag, but I'm going to try to get it in the fore grip. If I have to put it in the box mag, I will be doing a bit of rework on wire routing and would like to know this Thursday, instead of last minute on Friday. I'm not sure when the batteries will arrive. Since I've never ordered from this company before, I don't know how long they will take to actually get it out the door. :/ I will already be tearing it apart to wire in the MOSFET and new trigger switch. I just don't want it all taking too long Friday night (when I will likely have procrastinated and not gotten the rest of my gear/guns ready until that time either, he he he).
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Post by X on Apr 15, 2013 14:27:21 GMT -5
No way in hell that 5000mAH battery will fit under the barrel. I would start working on the wiring now. Did you measure it?
Sent from my DROID RAZR using proboards
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Post by Tank on Apr 15, 2013 14:54:18 GMT -5
No way in hell that 5000mAH battery will fit under the barrel. I would start working on the wiring now. Did you measure it? Sent from my DROID RAZR using proboards I measured everything. The area available within the fore grip and the area within the box mag. Then I compared these measurements to the size they indicate for the battery. Yes, if you go by what they say the battery measures, it won't fit. The question is, how accurately did they report the battery's measurements? We will see when it arrives. I've also thought about wiring in both batteries, one in the mag and one in the fore grip, if it did happen to fit. That would be some real sick capacity! With it mounted to the vehicle, the added weight wouldn't matter. When I run around with it at a game, I would simply leave one out.
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Post by X on Apr 15, 2013 15:00:54 GMT -5
I do suspect they are smaller than advertised, you may get lucky.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using proboards
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Post by MayhemXXXFrosty (AndrewMp5k) on Apr 15, 2013 15:57:38 GMT -5
It all depends on you for the most part. If you're heavy on the trigger finger then the more mAh the better for you. So long as your gearbox is shooting like butter (also depending on the spring and motor) then a 9.6v with 3k+ mAh should suit you fine. I only run a 9.6v 3300mAh in mine, and I haven't had to charge it in the midst of a game yet. I usually go through almost 2 box mags a game. I have 3 spare 11.1v LiPo's though in case it dies.
If you're not trying to mow down the wind, and use good long bursts you should be okay (IE, don't keep tapping on the same target, cause as stated before every time you touch the trigger and make a connection you're soaking up more juice per burst).
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Post by Tank on Apr 15, 2013 16:57:19 GMT -5
It all depends on you for the most part. If you're heavy on the trigger finger then the more mAh the better for you. So long as your gearbox is shooting like butter (also depending on the spring and motor) then a 9.6v with 3k+ mAh should suit you fine. I only run a 9.6v 3300mAh in mine, and I haven't had to charge it in the midst of a game yet. I usually go through almost 2 box mags a game. I have 3 spare 11.1v LiPo's though in case it dies. If you're not trying to mow down the wind, and use good long bursts you should be okay (IE, don't keep tapping on the same target, cause as stated before every time you touch the trigger and make a connection you're soaking up more juice per burst). That's the kind of post I was hoping for. Thanks! This is a little different situation since this gun will be mounted to our vehicle at Norther Light this year. This is cause it to see way more action than at your typical game. I will have it out at No Limits for its trial run, this Saturday. It should prove to be interesting. You can ask the rest of the guys on my team, I usually shoot semi-auto most of the time and don't shoot unless there is something I think I can hit. The SAW gunner role is so polar opposite from my normal style. Edit: By the way. Stock motor and stock spring. Gearbox has been re-shimmed, AoE corrected, piston rails and tappet plate grooves have been polished, and then everything has been re-lubed. I changed out the cylinder, cylinder head, piston head, piston, and nozzle all to Guarder. Unfortunately when I was doing this, all I could find was a piston head that had bearings in it, so I swiss cheesed the piston as best as possible.
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ctres
New Member
Posts: 955
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Post by ctres on Apr 15, 2013 20:44:17 GMT -5
Aren't you able to just removed the bearings? On mine I just usually take off the bearings and then just screw the piston head on with the plastic guide thingy that would normally contain the bearings.
Also, I don't know how the A&K stock motor is, but you will probably want something that runs really cool for long continuous bursts. A JG blue would fit the bill nicely if you are looking to upgrade in that department. They have tons of torque and are quite slow, so they won't drain your battery or run you out of ammo if you are trying to lay down constant fire.
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Post by MayhemXXXFrosty (AndrewMp5k) on Apr 15, 2013 22:45:19 GMT -5
I replaced mine, I didn't like the stock A&K motor (pretty crappy imo). I also replaced all my wiring with low resistance silicone wiring and soldered all the connections to allow juice to flow better. I'm not sure how the stock A&K will do on an entire day worth of M249 firing. I'd probably say you'll go through quite a few boxmags at NL, so I'd probably go for a 5k mAh, 9.6v.
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Post by Tank on Apr 15, 2013 23:32:00 GMT -5
I replaced mine, I didn't like the stock A&K motor (pretty crappy imo). I also replaced all my wiring with low resistance silicone wiring and soldered all the connections to allow juice to flow better. I'm not sure how the stock A&K will do on an entire day worth of M249 firing. I'd probably say you'll go through quite a few boxmags at NL, so I'd probably go for a 5k mAh, 9.6v. Casper seemed to think the motor would go the distance. I too replaced the wiring with low resistance wiring and soldered everything. I still may end up replacing the motor before NL4, I haven't decided yet. I'm mostly going for durability and low firing rate. Low RoF for realism and to conserve ammo. I have two 7.4V 5Ah LiPOs on their way. I do feel that I will end up ripping through several box bags during NL4. I just want the gun to hold up the whole weekend. I don't care if I have to break it down and rebuild some of it afterwards, it would have earned it.
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Post by MayhemXXXFrosty (AndrewMp5k) on Apr 16, 2013 1:02:06 GMT -5
I replaced mine, I didn't like the stock A&K motor (pretty crappy imo). I also replaced all my wiring with low resistance silicone wiring and soldered all the connections to allow juice to flow better. I'm not sure how the stock A&K will do on an entire day worth of M249 firing. I'd probably say you'll go through quite a few boxmags at NL, so I'd probably go for a 5k mAh, 9.6v. Casper seemed to think the motor would go the distance. I too replaced the wiring with low resistance wiring and soldered everything. I still may end up replacing the motor before NL4, I haven't decided yet. I'm mostly going for durability and low firing rate. Low RoF for realism and to conserve ammo. I have two 7.4V 5Ah LiPOs on their way. I do feel that I will end up ripping through several box bags during NL4. I just want the gun to hold up the whole weekend. I don't care if I have to break it down and rebuild some of it afterwards, it would have earned it. It could, I just didn't like mine personally and replaced it with a TM EG1000. For a Stock spring (guessing it's shooting around 350fps w/ .20s?) and a well shimmed and lubed gearbox, it should do alright. The low resistant wiring should also help along with your batteries being on par with ~9.6v NiMh's. On the realistic side though, SAW's (from what I have read) can shoot 750~1000rnds per minute (which equates to about 12.5rounds a second). Since in airsoft, approximately 4-5 bb's = 1 real bullet, that equates to about 52-60 bb's a second. So no matter what build you go with you should be alright. It'll probably help preserve everything after a lot of abuse that day if you end up going through more than 6+ boxmags.
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Post by Tank on Apr 16, 2013 1:30:46 GMT -5
It could, I just didn't like mine personally and replaced it with a TM EG1000. For a Stock spring (guessing it's shooting around 350fps w/ .20s?) and a well shimmed and lubed gearbox, it should do alright. The low resistant wiring should also help along with your batteries being on par with ~9.6v NiMh's. On the realistic side though, SAW's (from what I have read) can shoot 750~1000rnds per minute (which equates to about 12.5rounds a second). Since in airsoft, approximately 4-5 bb's = 1 real bullet, that equates to about 52-60 bb's a second. So no matter what build you go with you should be alright. It'll probably help preserve everything after a lot of abuse that day if you end up going through more than 6+ boxmags. It was shooting around that FPS, but once I resolved the compression issues, the stock spring is now shooting in the 380's with the stock barrel (also polished and cleaned). So I'm guessing if I ever were to put a 6.03 Prometheus in it, I'd be in the low 390s. In its current configuration it is shooting 11 RPS. I'm assuming the stock battery's lack of ability to deliver current is accounting for a 2 to 3 RPS decrease. We will see when the new batteries arrive.
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