Snarf
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Ambidextrous selector switches are the bane of my existence
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Post by Snarf on Sept 25, 2012 17:24:21 GMT -5
I store my rifle in a green cloth bag with a drawstring. Is that enough to be considered a "gun bag"? (for transportation purposes) I know it's not ideal for protection, but if I my vehicle gets checked out by the cops and I say "I have an airsoft gun in a gun bag in the trunk", will they freak out? What's legal?
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Simon
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Post by Simon on Sept 25, 2012 18:38:31 GMT -5
According to state police, there are no laws regarding airsoft guns for the state, obviously that does not apply to everywhere, Kalamazoo is a good example. As long as it's covered, and the mag is out there should never be any problems. I got stopped once and it was just in a duffel bag, all the officer said was "Can I shoot it?" that said, some aren't so cool. Since then I got a proper case to avoid any possible confrontation. Store it like a real rifle and you won't ever have problems.
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Post by X on Sept 25, 2012 19:19:40 GMT -5
...Store it like a real rifle and you won't ever have problems. This. "750.227d Transporting or possessing firearm in or upon motor vehicle or self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel; conditions; violation as misdemeanor; penalty. Sec. 227d. (1) Except as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a motor vehicle or any self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel a firearm, other than a pistol, unless the firearm is unloaded and is 1 or more of the following: (a) Taken down. (b) Enclosed in a case. (c) Carried in the trunk of the vehicle. (d) Inaccessible from the interior of the vehicle. (2) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both." -http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/publications/firearms.pdf Unloaded (mags in a separate case/pouch) and in the trunk should satisfy the law regarding real firearms. And in that case should absolutely satisfy any laws pertaining to Airsoft. Also keep in mind that the language in that law regarding pistols I believe is referring to people with a CPL.
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YoYo-Pete
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Post by YoYo-Pete on Sept 26, 2012 8:19:48 GMT -5
I didnt think michigan classifies airsoft as firearms? Likewise the above code states that a case in the backseat is acceptable or a naked firearm in the trunk is also.
8.3t “Firearm” defined. Sec. 3t. The word “firearm”, except as otherwise specifically defined in the statutes, shall be construed to include any weapon from which a dangerous projectile may be propelled by using explosives, gas or air as a means of propulsion, except any smooth bore rifle or handgun designed and manufactured exclusively for propelling BB's not exceeding .177 calibre by means of spring, gas or air.
So "legally" you can do whatever, but if you have any sense, just transport it in the trunk, mag out, with whatever case or bag you want. And if ever pulled over, probably declare right off that you have an airsoft gun in the trunk.
Edit: Just realized that .177 caliber is 4.5 mm and we shoot 6mm. So by definition, Airsoft IS a firearm? Note that .177 is metal BBs and Pellets.
Now "dangerous projectile".. what defines that? That is where it could be excluded from a firearm classification.
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YoYo-Pete
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Post by YoYo-Pete on Sept 26, 2012 8:34:46 GMT -5
I found this: arniesairsoft.co.uk/news2/274It quotes MLive.com article from 2004 that is no longer available due to age. "The Washtenaw County Prosecutor’s Office will no longer criminally charge anyone caught carrying an airsoft pistol, backing off an earlier edict that deemed the realistic toy guns firearms under state law. The policy change came on the heels of a letter sent by the Michigan Attorney General’s Office to a state representative addressing the legality of airsoft guns, which shoot plastic pellets but look like real weapons. Washtenaw County appeared to be one of the only counties where prosecutors believed airsoft guns qualified as firearms. Several other county prosecutors and the Michigan State Police disagreed, saying the plastic pellets they shoot are not a dangerous projectile, as defined by the law." To answer the OP, yes. The bag will work. Naked in the trunk will work. Have the mag out. No worries.
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Post by Knief on Sept 26, 2012 8:59:02 GMT -5
There's a term you hear a lot in the business world, "best practices." Most industries have some sort of bare minimum regulations they have to meet--in health care for example, it's a lot of patient safety stuff. The idea is, you can hit those bare minimum standards, but you're still probably going to end up killing a lot more patients than your patients would like. You implement "best practices," a way of handling patient safety concerns as best as possible, so that, you know, you don't kill your patients.
Airsoft doesn't have to be different. There's no law requiring you to carry airsoft guns in any particular way, so you might be in the clear legally to keep your M4 in your passenger seat if you like. But you, as an aware airsofter, understand the dangers that having a realistic replica poses, even if the law hasn't reacted properly to those dangers. So what we as airsofters have defined as best practices is transporting your airsoft gun as though it were a real firearm.
Not only that, we can adopt firearm best practices, too. With a real gun, you're required to either disassemble it, or keep it in a case, or keep it in the trunk (keep it inaccessible from the passenger compartment is the same thing for vehicles without clear trunks, like a minivan or pick up truck). Best practices for transporting a firearm would be to do all three. Break it down, but it in a case, and keep the case in the trunk. In airsoft, it's sometimes not very realistic to break your rifle down every time you want to travel with it (front wired M4s and TM mp5s, for instance, are a bitch). But at the very least, we can always follow the in a case and in the trunk practices of the laws governing firearms. Doing this, to me, is "best practices" for airsoft, and something that we all ought to be doing.
Cases are cheap and they protect your gun. They also make polices officers feel better than seeing loose guns in your trunk or stuffed into pillow cases. You're not legally required to do so, but own the responsibility of having and using replica firearms and buy yourself a case.
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Post by Kurt 19D on Sept 26, 2012 9:43:52 GMT -5
Not only that, we can adopt firearm best practices, too. Absolutely agree. This should apply not only to transporting airsoft guns but on the playing field as well. Trigger discipline, avoid pointing your barrel at someone you don't want to shoot, switching to safe when not engaging an enemy, etc... Any bad habits like those you develop playing airsoft will be hard to break, when or if you decide to shoot real firearms.
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YoYo-Pete
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Post by YoYo-Pete on Sept 26, 2012 10:02:24 GMT -5
How about "Don't keep your finger on the actual trigger except when you intend on firing." I see a lot of youtubers with terrible trigger discipline. Finger wrapped around the trigger whenever they are holding the weapon. Maybe I'll put together a super simple straight forward "Best Practices" post that covers the basics that people dont think about without getting into the super details. Like "Transport your airsoft gun in a case in the trunk of your car with mags unloaded" - "When holding your gun, do not wrap your finger around the trigger except when in combat. Extend your finger as if you were pointing down the barrel"
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Post by X on Sept 26, 2012 11:02:20 GMT -5
Knief, once again, is able to articulate exactly what I was thinking. If it's relatively easy to do and keeps us out of the public eye (negatively); why not do it?
Yo-Yo-Pete, I suppose you could put together such a post, but I think the people who need to read it never will. Just like every other sticky on this board.
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Snarf
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Ambidextrous selector switches are the bane of my existence
Posts: 560
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Post by Snarf on Sept 26, 2012 15:18:30 GMT -5
I suppose I'll just keep the mag out, in the bag, and in the trunk. Of course, it'll also be on safety and be without a battery. Thanks for the clarification.
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