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Post by Columbus on Sept 17, 2012 12:34:07 GMT -5
This was my first time at this field. I had a fun time and would certainly return depending on how the next game is set up. I did not end up staying for the full 24 hours. There were some definite pros and cons about this game that I will list below.
Pros: -Buildings and forts scattered throughout field -Excellent terrain -Good player turnout -Using a microphone and speakers before the match to read off rules was an excellent idea -Free
Cons: -Rules were unclear, ended up having them changed partway through the first day -Everyone had to wear tape on their arms.. tan got red tape, green got blue. I feel that the red stood out much more than the blue did, leading to an unfair advantage for the green team. This is the biggest deal breaker for me. Wearing tan in the woods makes it slightly harder to hide but having red tape all over made it nearly impossible. I love field games because of the stealthy opportunities, I felt there were little to none at this game. -Flags were not easy to raise or lower -A few players were wearing safety goggles, one was wearing mesh. -Objectives dissolved into more of a recreational match -There were respawns every 10 minutes, but no clocks were provided at the respawn locations. -For an event with this large of a player turnout, I recommend having some refs on the field.
Overall I would return for Op Jackal III, but only if it was guaranteed that I would not need to wear bright tape on my camouflage. The field and the host show a lot of promise for some spectacular games, but more work and preparation is needed before it will reach that level of gameplay.
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Post by Knief on Sept 17, 2012 13:34:51 GMT -5
Can you say more about the eye protection problems? Were only a few people wearing goggles, or was it mandatory? Were there safety glasses on the field at all?
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Post by Gimpalong on Sept 17, 2012 13:40:57 GMT -5
I attended this event as well as the first Operation Jackal in July. In general, I concur with Columbus' statements. The field itself is not very big, probably half the size of the offering at No Limits/Action Paintball. Despite being on the smallish size, it has many two story structures as well as log bunkers, dugouts and sandbagged areas. The event host had built several new buildings specifically for this event. Unfortunately, those buildings generally served as dead-zones and so neither team really got to attack them. The field is fairly heavily wooded and is gently rolling. It offers quite a bit of opportunity for maneuver provided there aren't dozens and dozens of people crammed onto it. It also means that attacks stall out and advances against concealed opposition tend to result in heavy casualties for the attackers, especially if (as was the case) they lack tactical sophistication (flanking, covering fire, etc). Turnout was solid for an event in Northern Michigan. Approximately 50 people showed up, the majority from Northern Michigan with a few from the Cadillac and Muskegon areas. Only a few players had actual "tan" uniforms such as DCU or ACU. Several people were wearing multicam. In several cases, groups of people arrived intending to play together, but wearing different patterns of uniforms. In order to balance the teams, the event host used colored armbands (blue, red and later green tape) to differentiate teams. I, personally, didn't find the tape to be problematic and I switched back and forth from team to team throughout the two day event whenever team balancing was needed. Unlike the last Operation Jackal, a working chronograph was available and everybody ran their guns over it. I would have liked to see a better safety briefing since there were many younger players (13-16 years old) in attendance. The greatest issue of concern for me was the lack of proper eye-protection. Several players had shooting glasses, while at least one had mesh. This was after a major uproar over this topic on the facebook event page. It seemed to me that those wearing improper, non-full seal eye-pro were adults accompanying teenaged players or 18+ players. I had to tell several younger players not to remove their goggles on the field. The majority of players had proper eye-protection and kept their goggles on while on the field. It might be worthwhile to purchase a few sets of proper eye-pro so that people who show up with shooting glasses can be provided with a proper alternative. Full seal goggles can be had pretty cheaply: www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=airsoft+gogglesThe major stumbling block of the event was the poor briefing at the very beginning. Having the PA system is awesome! This is only event where I have seen one used, but it needs to be used appropriately and people who are talking during the briefing need to be called out and told to shut up. The briefing laid out the objectives, but it obviously wasn't clear enough to insure that both teams understood where and when they were supposed to re-spawn. Moreover, neither team had dedicated dead-zones/re-spawn points away from their team HQs. As a result, both teams ended up, at different periods, camping the other teams dead-zone while simultaneously trying to capture the HQ point. This resulted in the sort of complaining that is typically seen when this situation develops: dead-players being upset that they are being shot even with kill-rags out and re-spawning players not being given any sort of chance to actually get into the game. There were not clocks in the dead-zones, so people had to guess (if they didn't have watches) when they could come back into play. There were no moderators or refs on the field (initially) and no one seemed to be keeping track of when teams seized objectives. The primary game objectives were to capture various posts scattered throughout the field, to raise the small and nearly irrelevant flags at these locations and to hold each structure. Why each team needed to do this was never explained. In most scenarios, objectives are structured in such a way that one team might be, for example, trying to capture a radio tower, rescue a pilot or hunt for gold. Despite having a "story line," this "operation" needs to incorporate it better for it to truly be called an "Operation" in the sense of the word. tl;drIn general, it was pretty much a standard recreational game. Overall, however, Jackal II improved on Jackal I and was a fun two days of running around shooting people in the face...err, in the woods. I think the people who stayed for the whole two days of the event probably had a better time as the game play on Sunday morning was relatively trouble free, fast-paced and featured greater intra-team coordination. I would definitely come back out, and would even be willing to volunteer some of my time by acting as a ref or field mod.
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Post by Columbus on Sept 18, 2012 7:13:22 GMT -5
Can you say more about the eye protection problems? Were only a few people wearing goggles, or was it mandatory? Were there safety glasses on the field at all? Just as Gimpalong said, the majority of players did have proper eye protection. I personally only saw two people with shooting glasses and one with mesh goggles. I called one player out on it, and their response was that they didn't need to, since they signed the host's waiver. The host's waiver indicated that all players were required to wear proper full-seal eye protection to play on the field. I informed the player that regardless of whether or not they signed a waiver, they still needed to wear them. The player then put full-seal goggles on, but I later noticed out on the field that they switched back to their shooting glasses. I didn't get a chance to point it out to the event host, since I ended up forgetting and not staying for the full event.
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Post by Ogre on Sept 18, 2012 11:31:34 GMT -5
Can you say more about the eye protection problems? Were only a few people wearing goggles, or was it mandatory? Were there safety glasses on the field at all? It was mandatory but a few must have switched mid game without my Knowledge.
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Post by Columbus on Sept 18, 2012 11:50:24 GMT -5
Can you say more about the eye protection problems? Were only a few people wearing goggles, or was it mandatory? Were there safety glasses on the field at all? It was mandatory but a few must have switched mid game without my Knowledge. This occurred right before the match had started. Next time you will just need to check as players are walking onto the field, or you can check when the players go to chrono (since they are all lined up and present at that time). The player definitely switched back to shooting glasses as we were walking back to the tan base. I should had immediately went to find you and let you know of the situation. Bad decision on my part.
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Post by Ogre on Sept 18, 2012 12:15:09 GMT -5
It was mandatory but a few must have switched mid game without my Knowledge. This occurred right before the match had started. Next time you will just need to check as players are walking onto the field, or you can check when the players go to chrono (since they are all lined up and present at that time). The player definitely switched back to shooting glasses as we were walking back to the tan base. I should had immediately went to find you and let you know of the situation. Bad decision on my part. Well I'm glad all of this is being posted now, this way I can think of ways to fix the issues we had. Re-spawns will definitely be moved, as well as marked off with a signs and clocks added to the location. The story will be explained in the briefing as well as Command posts given purposes like a communications station, Also I'm thinking a field walk-through before the game might benefit newcomers to the field. Also I am thinking, along with giving a Briefing, I will hand out a printed version of everything I went over so there is no confusion later in the day. For games up here I'm going to have to find some compromise when it comes to Armbands since many Northern Michigan players that come out don't have two sets of camo and we don't get enough from downstate that want to be on tan to balance the teams out. I'm thinking maybe a Yellow or if I can find it, tan duct tape would work well for that and wouldn't stick out on tan players so much. Then the green team could use green.
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Post by Columbus on Sept 18, 2012 14:27:21 GMT -5
This occurred right before the match had started. Next time you will just need to check as players are walking onto the field, or you can check when the players go to chrono (since they are all lined up and present at that time). The player definitely switched back to shooting glasses as we were walking back to the tan base. I should had immediately went to find you and let you know of the situation. Bad decision on my part. Well I'm glad all of this is being posted now, this way I can think of ways to fix the issues we had. Re-spawns will definitely be moved, as well as marked off with a signs and clocks added to the location. The story will be explained in the briefing as well as Command posts given purposes like a communications station, Also I'm thinking a field walk-through before the game might benefit newcomers to the field. Also I am thinking, along with giving a Briefing, I will hand out a printed version of everything I went over so there is no confusion later in the day. For games up here I'm going to have to find some compromise when it comes to Armbands since many Northern Michigan players that come out don't have two sets of camo and we don't get enough from downstate that want to be on tan to balance the teams out. I'm thinking maybe a Yellow or if I can find it, tan duct tape would work well for that and wouldn't stick out on tan players so much. Then the green team could use green. You can always try out 5 person squad games in the future. That way everyone knows who is on their team, since there would only be 4 others to keep track of. The last Hell's Survivors game was like that. They had a squad integrity rule which kept the squads from breaking apart, and it was a blast to play. That particular game was still 2 teams, but you could always just have every squad be their own team.
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Post by Ogre on Sept 18, 2012 14:54:43 GMT -5
Well I'm glad all of this is being posted now, this way I can think of ways to fix the issues we had. Re-spawns will definitely be moved, as well as marked off with a signs and clocks added to the location. The story will be explained in the briefing as well as Command posts given purposes like a communications station, Also I'm thinking a field walk-through before the game might benefit newcomers to the field. Also I am thinking, along with giving a Briefing, I will hand out a printed version of everything I went over so there is no confusion later in the day. For games up here I'm going to have to find some compromise when it comes to Armbands since many Northern Michigan players that come out don't have two sets of camo and we don't get enough from downstate that want to be on tan to balance the teams out. I'm thinking maybe a Yellow or if I can find it, tan duct tape would work well for that and wouldn't stick out on tan players so much. Then the green team could use green. You can always try out 5 person squad games in the future. That way everyone knows who is on their team, since there would only be 4 others to keep track of. The last Hell's Survivors game was like that. They had a squad integrity rule which kept the squads from breaking apart, and it was a blast to play. That particular game was still 2 teams, but you could always just have every squad be their own team. First Jackal it was like that. I don't know about Tan but the green team organized themselves into squads this time around as well.
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Post by Gimpalong on Sept 18, 2012 14:54:45 GMT -5
Honestly, I'd avoid having multiple teams. It just complicates things and makes people confused. The field really isn't big enough to have 3 or 4 teams running around on it.
Using tape for armbands really is the way to go if you're going to overcome the inherent woodland camo only problem that Northern Michigan seems to have.
Yellow, red or blue tape around the arms to differentiate teams works fine and lets everyone know who they're suppose to be shooting at.
Frankly, you're more likely to be spotted because you're moving around and not making good use of cover and concealment than by wearing a brightly colored armband.
The main things that need to happen are these:
1) Get people to pay attention and stop talking before you start your briefing. - Call people out by name and say "hey, John, pay attention." - If people are talking tell them to be quiet. If they keep talking don't try to talk over them, just stop talking. - Remind people that this is information they will need to know. - Be a dick about it.
2) Give a good safety briefing - Keep goggles on at all times - Don't blind fire (you may have to physical demonstrate what "blind firing" is) - Explain Minimum Engagement Distances (MED) - <350 fps = arms length engagement distance - 350 - 400 fps = 20 foot engagement distance - 400 - 540 fps = 50 foot engagement distance - zip-ties on guns show the different engagement distances - players ARE NOT to engage targets within their MED
3) Give a succinct, but clear briefing that explains - Dead-zones, where are they? - What happens when a player is eliminated by the other team? - What are the medic rules, if any? - How long does a "dead" player remain in his dead-zone - How does one team win? Points, captures, what? - What are the objectives? - How do teams achieve objectives? - Keep objectives SIMPLE. - The more complicated the objectives, the easier it is for someone or some team to mess things up. - Capture and hold, rescue the downed pilot, find the bomb/gold/cocaine shipment/endangered tree frog are basic staples of war-gaming. - Don't make every objective a capture-and-hold. - Make creative objectives. For example, give each team a pile of PVC tubes, screws, nuts and some tools and make them assemble something using blue-prints that is critical for the game. One game I attended forced 5 members of the "U.S." team to build their drop-zone (essentially they built their spawn location) before the rest of the "U.S." team could spawn. Simultaneously, the enemy "drug cartel" team had to build a drug lab out of pre-cut, pre-drilled boards using nuts and screws that were supplied. Once the drug-lab was built the cartel team had to use a scale to weigh out different amounts of drugs (sand) into bags and then deliver those drugs (sand) to different check-points on the field. The U.S. team tried to disrupt shipments by seizing the drop points from the Cartel and preventing shipments from getting through. The key to making this work is build the prop and make sure you can assemble it easily before making others do it. You also need to provide each team with a good guide to putting it all together that is easy to understand. Labeling the components can help with that - i.e. insert pipe A into pipe B, etc.
4) Refs or moderators on the field - Can help players figure out what they are supposed to do. - Can clarify rules. - Can break up arguments and prevent people yelling back and forth at one another. - Can move or back up teams that are spawn camping. - Can keep an eye out for people not taking hits or address situations where people are complaining about non-hit takers. - Refs and mods need to wear eye-pro. - Refs and mods need to know what they are doing, what the objectives and the rules are. You can't run a competitive athletic event (soccer, football, baseball, etc) without having refs who know the rules. Same goes for airsoft. - Can readjust the game to make objectives easier or harder. For example, if one team has to find a bomb, but has been searching for it all day, a ref might give them a hint or move the bomb to an easier to find location. If one team is owning the other, a ref can go and sit at the good team's spawn and change the spawn time from 10 min to 15 min to give the bad team a better chance.
The key to using refs and mods is that they need coordinate their activities, not just change things willy-nilly. They also need to know the rules and objectives.
Some other random suggestions that might be useful in certain situations: A field walk through prior to the briefing is probably a good idea. Have someone who knows what they are doing and has an idea of what the objectives are do the walk through. On the walk through take the group to each team's dead-zone so that everyone knows where they are supposed to go when they are dead. If people don't know where they are supposed to go to re-spawn they'll just pick a random spots. Trust me. Don't assume that everyone who has been on the walk through will remember everything the guide said. You need to reiterate what was talked about on the walk through during the briefing.
Brief each team separately. Or have their commanders brief them separately as far as their individual objectives. But make sure that the commanders know what the objectives and rules are. Nothing is worse than having a commander who does a poor job of explaining things because they don't understand things themselves.
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Post by Tank on Sept 18, 2012 17:39:32 GMT -5
I was part of the build crew, on the U.S. Forces side, at the Cartel game. I have to say that it was one of the most fun games I've attended, until the U.S. Forces side ran out of steam and basically quit, just before they let us try to take the city at SFOD. I remember standing at the fence line of the South West corner (maybe?), and looked back up the hill just to see my whole side just sitting there talking, that was just before I got slaughtered by two Cartel coming from two directions. I'd love to see more games requiring builds.
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Post by snafu on Sept 18, 2012 19:18:06 GMT -5
I was part of the build crew, on the U.S. Forces side, at the Cartel game. I have to say that it was one of the most fun games I've attended, until the U.S. Forces side ran out of steam and basically quit, just before they let us try to take the city at SFOD. I remember standing at the fence line of the South West corner (maybe?), and looked back up the hill just to see my whole side just sitting there talking, that was just before I got slaughtered by two Cartel coming from two directions. I'd love to see more games requiring builds. That was very fun after they had us move the structure. We got slaughter at first! I miss that place.. Sent from my SCH-I510 using proboards
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Post by Gimpalong on Sept 18, 2012 19:20:39 GMT -5
Yeah, I was on the Cartel build team and we got worried when, as we were building, fire from up the hill was coming in right over our heads. Needless to say, we grabbed all the build materials and tools and relocated.
The whole "build an important structure" thing has been done at a few different games. One game at Bangor I remember having to build a radio tower with a light on top.
These are the kind of objectives that are both fun and challenging and that provide some dimensionality to the game.
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Post by Knief on Sept 18, 2012 21:46:09 GMT -5
When I get the time to put together a couole more pre-fabbed builds for a game, they'll definitely be included. I loved the way those objectives played, and clearly they left their mark on you guys. I also learned a lot about what you guys can and can't do for those builds.
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Post by Tank on Sept 18, 2012 21:53:51 GMT -5
When I get the time to put together a couole more pre-fabbed builds for a game, they'll definitely be included. I loved the way those objectives played, and clearly they left their mark on you guys. I also learned a lot about what you guys can and can't do for those builds. I think a second go around and it wouldn't be a problem. Anyone that was involved will know your style of labeling now. Also, building a respawn in an area that the enemy can get to in 30 seconds, and has no cover, isn't the best. I know, I know, when you guys walked the area in prep for the event, the trees still had leaves.
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