Zdybel
New Member
Im Zdybel Dig up old Facebook Posts bcuz im 1337
Posts: 786
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Post by Zdybel on Aug 9, 2012 16:30:18 GMT -5
Thaddeus, What's your rule about helmets when you ride an atv/vehicle?
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Post by specks159 on Aug 9, 2012 16:31:40 GMT -5
Something similar to the chart knief posted seems like a good way to do it. Something that lists fps values for each bb weight and each MED bracket. You can either choose to have a sample of common bb weights to use to chrono with, or have them use their own bbs. If they're using their own, I would personally have a small scale so you can weigh their personal bbs as well. It may take longer, but I'd rather spend a bit more time at the chrono to have a safe and fun in game experience.
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Post by Tank on Aug 9, 2012 16:51:12 GMT -5
Something similar to the chart knief posted seems like a good way to do it. Something that lists fps values for each bb weight and each MED bracket. You can either choose to have a sample of common bb weights to use to chrono with, or have them use their own bbs. If they're using their own, I would personally have a small scale so you can weigh their personal bbs as well. It may take longer, but I'd rather spend a bit more time at the chrono to have a safe and fun in game experience. Wow, how small of a turn out are you getting at these games? If you feel that there is enough time to weigh individual BBs, the turn out can't be that high. Just as a for instance, this Sunday's game at no limits has more than 100 people signed up. To weigh individual BBs then chrono, it would take all morning. I acknowledge that if you are looking for cheaters then you have to be careful about taking their word for the weight of their BBs. I also agree that chrono should be run with the weight of the BB that the person intends to use, to eliminate this creep factor. I also strongly agree that P* users are not the only people that this sort of chrono should be in effect for. But you have to be careful about how crazy you get with it also. I was about to comment on the potential cost of a scale that was accurate to .01g but evidently this isn't a factor. I just found plenty for $10 or less. I think we can thank everyone selling their Gold, to those cash for gold guys, for the abundance of digital scales that measure accurate weights that small.
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ATS
New Member
Posts: 216
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Post by ATS on Aug 9, 2012 18:19:41 GMT -5
I'd like very much to make a special thank you to Knief, Gimp, Track, and everyone else who made a contributory or revelatory statement on this issue. I decided to get my head around the tech, and have been calling contacts and manufacturers, folks planning to release similar systems, and users the world over.. what I have learned? That I have a LOT to learn!
I will continue to work on this issue. I want badly for people to feel safe, as well as entertained. I really appreciated Track's family coming and playing, I do not doubt an unintentional headshot or two happened, I saw MANY that day from all players. Ducking and bobbing in grass or cover will expose only your head and shoulders, and with the nature of airsoft, if you stood still in a clear area, and someone aimed at your feet, they are likely to whack you in the chops, without meaning it...
As to the comment that "The 8 year old did it".. the P* family had thier 11 year old brother/son with them, but unfortunately, I could not let him play, as he was under the minimum age of 13. I KNOW he never went into the field, as he spent the day with me! (learned a lot, he is one sharp, cool dude too!) The youngest player on P* team was a man grown gents.
I again, thank you very much for helping me learn even more and the tables for determining imparted energy (measured in Joules) will become a fixture until we have something better. There will be receiver taping, regulator taping, regulator locking when I have the locks, and spot chrono. This is to reassure any one insecure with someone on the field runnig new, different tech.. I want to be safe. Period. From discussions on and off forum with Track, I know for a fact how accommodating and interested themselves in everyone's enjoyment as well as safety, his team is!
Same rules as the rules for the road (state law) on helmets, with the exception that anyone of any age, on an ATV, WILL wear a helmet at all times while operating it. The dune buggy does not require a helmet, just seat belts,even though operator rocked a helmet and they both wore five point harnesses. (Were it me that exposed, I would wear a helmet anyways though! Not for fear of a 3-5mph crash, but for fear of a few dozen BBs hitting me when I cannot duck!)
Thanks, more to come.
Thadius
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Post by specks159 on Aug 9, 2012 18:50:45 GMT -5
Something similar to the chart knief posted seems like a good way to do it. Something that lists fps values for each bb weight and each MED bracket. You can either choose to have a sample of common bb weights to use to chrono with, or have them use their own bbs. If they're using their own, I would personally have a small scale so you can weigh their personal bbs as well. It may take longer, but I'd rather spend a bit more time at the chrono to have a safe and fun in game experience. Wow, how small of a turn out are you getting at these games? If you feel that there is enough time to weigh individual BBs, the turn out can't be that high. Just as a for instance, this Sunday's game at no limits has more than 100 people signed up. To weigh individual BBs then chrono, it would take all morning. I acknowledge that if you are looking for cheaters then you have to be careful about taking their word for the weight of their BBs. I also agree that chrono should be run with the weight of the BB that the person intends to use, to eliminate this creep factor. I also strongly agree that P* users are not the only people that this sort of chrono should be in effect for. But you have to be careful about how crazy you get with it also. I was about to comment on the potential cost of a scale that was accurate to .01g but evidently this isn't a factor. I just found plenty for $10 or less. I think we can thank everyone selling their Gold, to those cash for gold guys, for the abundance of digital scales that measure accurate weights that small. I never said it would be practical. I completely understand that for large games that would take way too long. It was more of an example of how you need a way to be sure what exact weight the people are using. Alternatevely, you could chrono with .43's. If their gun is under the limit with .43's, then they have to be under the limit with .20's.
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Post by Tank on Aug 10, 2012 0:02:14 GMT -5
That is more costly for the hosts, but I don't find an issue with it, unless of course it is possible to have little enough volume of air to get a .20 out your barrel, that a .43 would incorrectly register. I don't even know if this is a feasible issue. Just throwing it out there.
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Post by specks159 on Aug 10, 2012 0:57:19 GMT -5
If your gun is tuned for .2's, then it will be undervolumed with .43's. When a gun is undervolumed, the bb stops accelerating before it reaches the end of the barrel. Essentially it means you're not using all of the potential space that you can use. In an AEG, you have a fixed amount of potential energy stored in the spring. With .43's, all of that potential energy will be converted to kenetic energy say, halfway down the barrel. With .2's, that exact same amount of potential energy will be converted to kenetic energy at the end of the barrel. Since the full potential energy is imparted on the bb, the output energy will be the same, regardless or whether the energy is expended halfway down the barrel or when the bb reaches the end. With the P* it works the same way bu instead of a spring storing energy, there is a finite amount of air pressure which is controlled by the solenoid in the fusion engine.
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Post by Tank on Aug 10, 2012 1:11:06 GMT -5
I agree with what you are saying, but does any sort of vacuum form when the energy is all imparted that early on? I know when I was in the early stages of making my M72, I first tried using a 5 foot PVC pipe, just because that is what I had handy. There was such a huge vacuum that formed that the Nerf rocket traveled only 10 feet before hitting the ground. I just wasn't sure if this same phenomenon happened with AEGs.
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Post by specks159 on Aug 10, 2012 1:39:50 GMT -5
TBH I'm not sure. It is theoretically possible but you also have the air nozzle pulling back quite quickly opening that up to allow air in. If you're using a ported pistonhead then the piston pulling back shouldn't cause any vacuum. I've heard people bring this up before and I've never heard a definitive answer. Some people believe it and some consider it bullshit. It would definitely be more pronounced in your M72 as it stays sealed until the round exits the barrel. An airsoft gun never forms a perfect seal with the bb in the barrel, so I'm unsure whether or not a vacuuming effect would occur.
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Post by Tank on Aug 10, 2012 7:12:32 GMT -5
This is what I'm thinking as well. I didn't expect that it would be as extreme as my LAW example, but i was throwing that out there as an extreme example. It would only have to happen slight enough that it made say a 10 or 20 FPS effect. This would invalidate the test obviously. I acknowledge that it would be not the norm. It would really only happen with a gun that would be almost undervolumed at .20, if it was possible at all. So it would be difficult to test for, due to how unique of a stackup it would require.
Again, I really don't expect that this would occur, but I'm simply bringing up the thought, in case it is even remotely possible.
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Post by specks159 on Aug 10, 2012 11:53:49 GMT -5
It's certainly something that needs to be tested out at some point. Of course, of the guns undervoluming .2's then you can just do an energy conversion to whatever weight you want, as there's no way the gun will have enough air pressure to overpower a heavier bb.
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bobbunny
New Member
No long fishing.
Posts: 779
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Post by bobbunny on Aug 10, 2012 12:20:08 GMT -5
What exactly are the requirements for a helmet exactly?
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Post by trackman800 on Aug 10, 2012 13:02:02 GMT -5
Knief
I really appreciate the chart very much. I wont be playing LC events till next year and will simply just go back to 300 fps. I really cant go any higher without switching back to the blue nozzle anyways.
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Post by Gimpalong on Sept 5, 2012 15:54:36 GMT -5
I just wanted to add that some guy over at the Pstartalk forums has developed a tournament lock for the SMC-III regulator. This reg is used with the popular "Devgru" rigs made by Redline airsoft. More at the following links: www.pstartalk.com/showthread.php?209-AKA-SMC-lll-Tournament-Lockwww.shapeways.com/model/646696I ordered one and will report on it when it arrives. I think these sort of locks will go a long way to assuring field owners and event hosts that P* users put safety and honesty first.
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