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Post by bigjohn on May 6, 2012 11:06:00 GMT -5
Hello all, I just wanted to introduce myself and give you all a brief back ground. Well my name is John I have 2 sons and a daughter. Right now we live in Clio, Michigan but will be moving this summer up north to Harrison, Michigan. Basically I have been into anything Remote Control since early 80’s. We had a small business in Paint Ball around 2000. I had a Remote Control RC track in my back yard for about 4 years. This was pretty successful. We had racers coming from Indiana, Ohio, All areas of Michigan. Now we are just getting our feet wet in Airsoft. Let me tell you we are all hooked bad on this sport. Issues I am having right now is understanding what upgrades fit on certain guns. (Example: Different Barrels, metal gears, Bearings, and motors.) I feel confident that I won’t have any problems tearing down guns doing proper maintenance and upgrades. But if anyone could possibly help me out with links or sites that might help me get more familiar with what parts work with what guns and possibly learning what certain upgrades will improve what on our guns. I would greatly appreciate it!!! Thanks and I look forward to hearing back and hopefully soon I can get myself to the point where I can contribute to help people on this site. John
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Dean
New Member
Posts: 193
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Post by Dean on May 6, 2012 11:42:27 GMT -5
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Post by Shogun (AKA Basic) on May 6, 2012 12:42:23 GMT -5
Well, first of all, welcome to MiA bigjohn! That guide that Jack linked you to is very helpful to newbies and even to experienced players. I briefly skimmed it, so if I repeat the guide, sorry. You're having issues with compatability? Many parts can be identified as compatible by gearbox type. V2 and V3 are the most common. The difference is that the gearboxes are arranged and/or shaped differently so that they can fit in certain replicas. Another indicator, is if a replica is "TM compatible". As you're into RC's, you most likely have heard of Tokyo Marui. Tokyo Marui (TM) is the Rolls Royce of airsoft. Many companies will "clone" their weapons, but with less reliable parts. If your replica is a TM "clone" check to see if the part you're interested in says "TM compatible" in the description. But beware, many replicas are NOT TM compatible such as some G&G, KWA, or CA replicas. Motors also vary by size, but that's in the guide most likely. Short, long, etc. vary by replica.
Well, that was just a quick compatiblity paragraph. Not that detailed, but that guide is contains the details. Hope I helped.
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Post by bigjohn on May 6, 2012 13:40:43 GMT -5
Yes that helps me out allot. I have been reading Frostee's posting on ***** SUPER SECRET! Do Not Read! EYES ONLY ***** Which hit's on some details I already knew but allot I didn't know. Batteries and Smart Chargers I have delt with for my Rc's. Knowing the Version 2 & 3 gears boxes helps me out allot.(Thanks to Shogun) What I am wanting to do is use my G&G GR15 as my learning tool. Basically Take the gearbox apart and upgrade to better gears and bearings. Maybe strong spring and stronger motor. I know it might not be a good qulity gun to practice on or worth doing upgrades, but I figure I have to learn at some point and seeing I have kids I can always had the gun down to them. So I won't be wasting to much money seeing it will get used. Thanks for the pointers and advice it helps allot. If anyone has other suggestions to help me learn this I am open for any help and info. Yes I am looking through older Threads but I figured if I was open and let you know where I stand with my back ground, I won't have to ask the same old boring questions that all Newbies usually do.
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Fission
New Member
Full Metal Fanatic.
Posts: 250
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Post by Fission on May 6, 2012 13:52:45 GMT -5
Hey welcome to the forums bigjohn! That G&G should actually be an awesome base for a project gun. G&G make very solid guns (even the CM or "budget line") they have a ton of upgrade possibilities both internal and external. You should be able to enjoy it for a long time! There is a wealth of knowledge between the members here and everyone is really great. You should get up to speed quickly, and receive help with anything you need! Enjoy the new hobby!
- Eric
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Post by Shogun (AKA Basic) on May 6, 2012 14:02:22 GMT -5
If you're planning on using this replica in the field, make sure that if you do change the spring, that you might need to upgrade other parts such as gears, piston, etc. Also, keep in mind FPS limits when you upgrade your spring. If you're looking to attend CQB games, you are REQUIRED to have your replica shooting no more than 350 FPS.
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Post by bigjohn on May 6, 2012 14:46:51 GMT -5
Honestly I don't really think we will be going to any CQB places. Especially moving up north. I don't know of any fields up that way. Where we are moving to we have a ton of property and we will probably do more Field play than anything else. Unless I get the itch and decide to open an airsoft businesss and Field. (Which is a possibility) One thing you guys will find out about me is once I get and interest into a hobby,I try to learn anything and everything I can. As far as upgrading my GR15 I am holding off for a bit, because I pretty much know upgrading one part will make some other part be your weakest link. (Same as our RC Cars) So a little more research and help from others like you guys. I will get a game plan and a direction I want to focus on for the GR15 then I will start looking for parts that I will need. But thanks for warning me about thinking ahead if I decide to upgrade. Trust me I learnd that lesson the hard way of my years with RC's.
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Post by X on May 7, 2012 13:07:36 GMT -5
That's not necessarily true for all parts. For example a common first upgrade is a tightbore barrel. These will not reduce the durability of anything else in the gun. Anything hop-up related should be OK. Things like upgrading the Spring, Motor, higher voltage battery will decrease the reliability. Most high quality guns will run off of an 8.4V battery indefinitely. The most common battery though is probably the 9.6V as it's a good compromise between durability and rate of fire/trigger response. I run a 10.8V battery, I have noticed wear on my piston teeth as a result, but It's been running fine for the last couple years. Pistons are only like $20-$30 so I'm willing to keep an extra around just in case.
You can run a stock G&G, TM, or KWA and be totally competitive. So, there's no reason to really jump into the upgrades right off the bat. If you only plan on playing outdoors I personally would look for a gun that's high quality and shooting around 380-400 FPS (excluding TM, they have stupid awesome hop-ups and don't necessarily need the extra power). I say that, but keep in mind FPS is not everything, however it certainly helps. Generally you will get better maximum range out of a gun with a higher velocity and better effective range with high quality hop-up and compression parts. These parts make each shot more consistent so that you can be more accurate at range. The Tokyo Marui has this sort of magical hop-up that allows it to shoot at only 250-280 FPS and still get great range. So there's a lot of pieces to the puzzle and I should probably stop rambling...
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Post by a1 (Babez) on May 7, 2012 14:04:08 GMT -5
Big John, have a +1 for reading some of the stickies and being mature and considering our advice (unlike a plethora of other users lately). Like what X mentioned, you don't need to jump right into upgrades. Just invest in a good starter AEG that will get your feet off the ground. For instance, most G&G's come stock with metal/brass bushings (correct me if I'm wrong, but all three of my G&G's have metal bushings). The first things that may break or fail may be the piston or motor. Stock G&G motors tend to be 'underpowered'. Analyze what you have before what you need! Hope that helps a bit. Also, Harrison is a nice little town. People are friendly up there, and I have family who lives there as well. If I don't mind asking, what is your incentive for moving up there?
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Post by bigjohn on May 8, 2012 9:07:48 GMT -5
"X" Thanks for your input. I will say the biggest thing I noticed a difference between RC’s and Airsoft is this Battery situation. With our RC Cars when Lipo’s came out RC hobbyist started getting on the band wagon. But we use the large packs. 7.4 With high “mah” and high “C” ratings. And if we went to higher voltage we had Voltage regulators (Which I guess you guys call MOSFET). But here we are using the mini size batteries and pushing crazy voltages through the motors. But the thing I am wondering is, I know they make Mini Lipo’s 7.4v Battery’s. CORRECT me if I am wrong but even though we are using a lower voltage Lipo’s we will get as good or maybe better punch with our AEG’s as if we were running higher voltage battery through the motor.
"a1" As far as the forums goes. I have spent allot of time over the years getting on Forums. But I have been looked at as “The Wise Old man” in the RC community. So I am usually the guy that has to deal with the newbie questions and repeat questions. But now it Airsoft I am that newbie but I wanted to inform you guys that I do have a background with similar components in Airsoft because it is allot like RC’s. So you guys didn’t think of me right off the bat as a total Newbie. As far as our plan/reason to move to Harrison is kind of a long but crazy explanation. But short version is I grew up down in St. Clair Shores and my wife grew up in flint. But our parents had cottages in the same neighborhood almost our whole lives and that is how we ever met. Well about 15+ years ago my wife’s parents moved up to Harrison on an 80 acre farm. Well their health is not doing very good right now and my wife and I vowed MANY years ago that we would do whatever needed to be done to help take care of them. Well right now in mine and my wife’s lives I am on disability and my wife doctor’s office she works at is going to be Bankrupt within the next year or so. And right now we are living in a rental house, so basically she and I decided our next step in our lives is caring for her parents and seeing we don’t have much here for us, which this is the best time to make a move like this. So this summer we will be moving. I don’t want to bore you guys with more details about us moving. I am sure in due time you guys will get the whole blow down seeing I like this Forum and plan to be here for a while. So we will leave that for now. But again thanks for warm welcome and I look forward to catching up to most of your skills in due time. NOT!!!!...I have nothing else to say
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Post by X on May 8, 2012 12:12:33 GMT -5
"X" Thanks for your input. I will say the biggest thing I noticed a difference between RC’s and Airsoft is this Battery situation. With our RC Cars when Lipo’s came out RC hobbyist started getting on the band wagon. But we use the large packs. 7.4 With high “mah” and high “C” ratings. And if we went to higher voltage we had Voltage regulators (Which I guess you guys call MOSFET). But here we are using the mini size batteries and pushing crazy voltages through the motors. But the thing I am wondering is, I know they make Mini Lipo’s 7.4v Battery’s. CORRECT me if I am wrong but even though we are using a lower voltage Lipo’s we will get as good or maybe better punch with our AEG’s as if we were running higher voltage battery through the motor. A MOSFET isn't a voltage regulator. Basically it gates the electricity. Instead of all of the electricity flowing through the trigger contacts inside the gearbox it flows through the MOSFET. The MOSFET uses a signal wire from the trigger contacts to know when to open the gate and to close the connection allowing the gun to shoot. These will keep your trigger contacts from burning out. Without a MOSFET if you use high voltage batteries or high current batteries arcing will eventually burn out the contacts. The reason why your larger packs are have the same output is because they can provide more amperage. Here's the way that I think of it which I think is technically accurate, but I'm not an EE major. The voltage of the battery is going to determine how much power is supplied to the motor. Sort of like the pressure behind a water hose. Now imagine that you have a super high pressure faucet but the water faucet can only supply 8oz of water a minute. Assuming your standard spray nozzle. It may be high pressure, but the hose is still going to be pretty pathetic, because once you open the valve all that pressure releases and there's nothing to back it up. Now the faucet (or battery in this case) cannot provide enough current or amperage. The amount of current needed is determined by the spray nozzle (or the gearbox in this case, stronger springs, faster motors, torque gears etc.) So with all that said. 7.4V with the ability to provide high amounts of current will only get you so much performance. At some point the gearbox will no longer need anymore current. Just like the nozzle if you only open it up a little bit you don't need a lot of current. But if you increase the pressure/voltage you will start seeing performance boosts again. One last thing to also consider is that with additional pressure/voltage you need less current. So what this all means is that a 7.4V with a high discharge rate will perform about the same as a small 9.6V NiMH battery. However, if you had a huge 9.6V battery that could supply more current than you would see it outperform a 7.4V lipo.
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Post by bigjohn on May 9, 2012 7:03:02 GMT -5
I see what your saying. It does make sense. I didn't totally understand the MOSFET. When I read about them it says it controls Voltage spikes plus you fire modes. But that basically is just if you throw a fresh battery it might be a little high on voltage it will stop that excess. What I am wondering about is, with RC cars we have an actual voltage regulator where we can put like a 11.1 LIPO in our car but its output is 9.6v So basically we are punching the Max voltage the motor can handle (9.6) but we will get longer run time with the battery, due to the high voltage. I don't know maybe I am giving this too much thought. I have allot of Electronics schooling back ground Plus I was an electrician my whole life, so things like this gets my brains spinning...I have nothing else to say P.S. You guys got me thinking about starting out with a better grade gun for my base. So here is what i think I will be ordering in the next 2 weeks. Let me know how you feel about this choice. www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.php?products_id=9772
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Post by X on May 9, 2012 7:35:22 GMT -5
I don't know where you read this. If it's some sort of board that also has a voltage regulator then sure. Otherwise, no, a MOSFET is simply a transistor. Edit: ah I see you said fire modes. This is definitely a larger board with multiple components possibly including a regulator, although I haven't seen one. more likely it probably has a thermal fuse on it. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOSFET Sent from my DROID RAZR using ProBoards
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Post by Tank on May 9, 2012 8:02:56 GMT -5
Yeah, if it had a regulator on it, it will then be using less current from your battery, because of how much excess in voltage it has. That is assuming that the output voltage is 9.6v however. I myself love running 11.1v through my rifle. Much quicker trigger response, and faster rate of fire for auto bursts.
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Post by bigjohn on May 9, 2012 8:55:26 GMT -5
tank: Doesn't the 11.1 over load your motor? That's my thing is I don't want to push the voltage too high where it will burn the motor up or tear up internals. I guess the part I am trying to understand what is you best voltage to be using on your gun to do the least wear and tear. The part that is confusing to me is I see some guns say lipo ready and some videos people are saying the are using a wide verity of voltages. But with our RC's depending on the Size/Scale motor depends the voltage battery you use. we can't use higher voltages on motors Due to our Speed controls and motor will burn up. Lesson I learnd the bad way. I accidently hooked the wrong battery to my small RC and a pretty poof of smoke flowed out of my car. @x: www.amazon.com/Bravo-Airsoft-Advanced-MOSFET-Unit/dp/B004MDU9PW This is was one of the MOSFET's I read about the Voltage Spike. My research on adding different voltages to these guns, brought me to the MOSFET. I kind of just skimmed through it and basically thought it was like our Voltage Regulators for RC's. My bad, I should have looked it over better before saying anything.
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