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Post by Psychosis on Apr 29, 2012 19:48:17 GMT -5
So because posers liberally wear unit insignias and rank it ruins the ability of real service members to wear what they've rightfully gained? Clearly the solution is to make the posers take off their shit, not the other way around.
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Post by Tank on Apr 29, 2012 19:54:29 GMT -5
I think that was what he was last trying to say. I understand the frustration that everyone, that has served, has with this topic. But I think he is trying to say he made a mistake in his original post. Let's all make peace and move on.
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Scooter
New Member
Palisade
Posts: 106
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Post by Scooter on Apr 29, 2012 21:25:28 GMT -5
He made a mistake. Stop bringing it back up. This is coming from a soldier who WAS mad about this. If I'm over it. You definitely should be.
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Post by X on Apr 30, 2012 8:00:52 GMT -5
You know if everyone used black bbs this wouldn't be a problem. I bought two bags and I can say the only good thing about them is that I have no idea if I'm actually hitting someone. Not once did I yell at someone for not calling hits. Why? Not because I took the moral high road, no, because I have no frekin' idea where they're going ;D
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Post by Tank on Apr 30, 2012 8:10:11 GMT -5
Quit trying to find the silver lining. Your black BBs suck!
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Post by Priest (Immortal) on Apr 30, 2012 9:15:00 GMT -5
Wow. I almost went to FTF II. But by the way everyone is fighting and complaining; I'm definitely glad I saved my money and stayed home. ;D I just hope that these issues are left at home in June for Black Eagle. It's a shame that a few guys decided to ruin your guys day. Sorry to hear this event wasn't as great as it was anticipated to be. Hopefully this doesn't hinder future games in that venue.
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Post by Gimpalong on Apr 30, 2012 9:20:16 GMT -5
In my experience, the best way to make sure that people refrain from yelling at one another is simply to have refs around to address the situation in two ways. Either 1) by actually watching and seeing who is hitting whom (very difficult to do for obvious reasons) and 2) by reminding players that this sort of behavior is poor sportsmanship in and of itself and that continuing that behavior will result in their own ejection from the game.
Getting angry and yelling at another player won't solve the problem. Staying calm, finding a ref and addressing the concerns to that ref who can then take the appropriate action is the better way to go.
As for "spawn camping," both teams were guilty of this. For obvious reasons, it's often difficult for opposing players to determine exactly where the enemy dead-zone is located. In many cases, event organizers put the dead-zones in buildings. The result is that while there might be "dead" players standing around in and around the building, there might also be "live" players shooting from the outskirts of the dead-zone or even from the upper floors of the dead-zone structure itself. One way to handle "spawn camping" is to have refs push the attacking players back or simply by placing boundary tape at an appropriate distance from the dead-zone that attacking players are told not to cross.
The boundaries of this field were fairly nebulous and I had a conversation with an opposing player in which we agreed to both pull back into what appeared to be the true boundaries of the field itself. I just yelled out "hey, I think we're out of bounds," the opposing player and I met within speaking distance, agreed to that we were probably out of bounds and then we both pulled back into what we had agreed were the boundaries. It was a totally amicable exchange.
The spawn camping at this event was also partially caused by the refs telling the green team that "spawn camping is ok." So when people on the green team (myself included) were saying "hey, maybe we should pull back," other people, citing the refs, were saying "nah, the ref told me that we could spawn camp."
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Post by red3marksman on Apr 30, 2012 11:35:29 GMT -5
For the field problems, as the owner let me say this. The entire 25 acres playing field has a twine border with orange ribbon marking it. It is the woods, so a lot of deer run through the area. It is very hard to make sure that every part is up, how ever if one looked close, and I did as I walked the field, you could get a clear idea of the boundaries of the field, all though some of it was down. I am sorry this was not taken care of before the game, I will make sure it is for the next one. I was criticized for attempting to pass on my belief and more my hope that yes...My field is the last bastion of Honor in the game of Paintball...Airsoft on the other hand was up to you...and yours. As I stated in my Briefing...Games such as Airsoft and Paintball do not build character, they reveal it. Those that ignore Honor have no place in such games. Yes, it is my wish to make my field the best, I realize the organization of the event was an issue. I have owned, operated Splatmandu for 18 years. With my staff we have organized and created many original Games and sims. I would love the chance to show you all what we have to offer. I want to put together a game for the end of Sept or beg of Oct as a fund raiser for the shelter. I need help. So I put this out to all that complain...now is your chance to get in on the ground floor and do the type of game you want. Anyone interested in helping me with this event PM me. If you dont like something change it...or stop bitching. Now is the chance.
Ted Cross Splatmandu
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Exodus
New Member
Surprisingly nimble
Posts: 499
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Post by Exodus on Apr 30, 2012 11:59:09 GMT -5
I had a lot of fun at FTFII. The game play was alright, though we ran into a lot of sportsmanship issues, which were already addressed. The objectives were sort of generic, which didn't really give it a milsim feel.
For the spawn camping that green team did, we were ordered to get a V.I.P out of tans control and back to our spawn. I asked for intel of where said V.I.P was and was told in tans' spawn point. In order for us to complete our objective we had to take the spawn, which ended up having spawn camping. We were NOT trying to to pin you in spawn we were trying to snag the objective and get him back to our spawn. This was confusing on the organizers part, as there needs to be a secondary spawn point or base to put objectives like this in.
Also, I had a great time rolling with the RAGE guys. Thanks for letting me attach to your squad.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2012 12:03:08 GMT -5
I had a lot of fun at FTFII. The game play was alright, though we ran into a lot of sportsmanship issues, which were already addressed. The objectives were sort of generic, which didn't really give it a milsim feel. For the spawn camping that green team did, we were ordered to get a V.I.P out of tans control and back to our spawn. I asked for intel of where said V.I.P was and was told in tans' spawn point. In order for us to complete our objective we had to take the spawn, which ended up having spawn camping. We were NOT trying to to pin you in spawn we were trying to snag the objective and get him back to our spawn. This was confusing on the organizers part, as there needs to be a secondary spawn point or base to put objectives like this in. Also, I had a great time rolling with the RAGE guys. Thanks for letting me attach to your squad. If you were trying to get a vip they should have placed him somewhere not in the spawn. A lot of the staff there did decently but i think they should have had everything planned out better.
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Post by Gimpalong on Apr 30, 2012 12:07:46 GMT -5
Hi Ted, First off, thank you for providing us such a wonderful place to play. Second, thanks for being an active participant on this forum. It's great to be able to communicate directly with the owners of the fields on which we want to play. Third, and most importantly, there are very few (if any) criticisms that can be leveled at you, your field or your staff. You facilitated our ability to use the field, your staff did a great job considering their unfamiliarity with our sport, the field itself is simply amazing. One of the best fields in Michigan. As far as the bitching in this thread, it's sort of par for the course, and you shouldn't take it to heart. For the field problems, as the owner let me say this. The entire 25 acres playing field has a twine border with orange ribbon marking it. It is the woods, so a lot of deer run through the area. It is very hard to make sure that every part is up, how ever if one looked close, and I did as I walked the field, you could get a clear idea of the boundaries of the field, all though some of it was down. I am sorry this was not taken care of before the game, I will make sure it is for the next one. I was criticized for attempting to pass on my belief and more my hope that yes...My field is the last bastion of Honor in the game of Paintball...Airsoft on the other hand was up to you...and yours. As I stated in my Briefing...Games such as Airsoft and Paintball do not build character, they reveal it. Those that ignore Honor have no place in such games. Yes, it is my wish to make my field the best, I realize the organization of the event was an issue. I have owned, operated Splatmandu for 18 years. With my staff we have organized and created many original Games and sims. I would love the chance to show you all what we have to offer. I want to put together a game for the end of Sept or beg of Oct as a fund raiser for the shelter. I need help. So I put this out to all that complain...now is your chance to get in on the ground floor and do the type of game you want. Anyone interested in helping me with this event PM me. If you dont like something change it...or stop bitching. Now is the chance. Ted Cross Splatmandu
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Post by Knief on Apr 30, 2012 13:01:24 GMT -5
This is objective planning 101. Most of the guys who host or have hosted the bigger games in Michigan over the years know not to put objectives and spawn points within shootin' distance of each other. Maybe it was an oversight in this game, but seeing the rest of the comments in this thread, it looks more like it was symptomatic of a larger organizational problem.
To any aspiring event hosts out there, this is the type of thing (and there are a few other similar "rules" to hosting a good game, like starting on time and ensuring continuous objectives) that you need to pay attention to when you play at other games. You absolutely must attend other Ops and pay attention to what works and what doesn't. But more importantly, you have to spend some time thinking about why. There's a reason that every other game in the state separates spawn points from FOBs, separates teams by distinct colors or patterns, and runs objectives that can't be accomplished in 45 minutes if one team is dominant. Collectively, we've learned how to avoid these pitfalls over the last decade. If you're newer to hosting, there's no reason for you to repeat the mistakes that we've already learned how to avoid.
I know Canto once called for this years ago, and the more I see games come and flop, the more I think it's a good idea. Why don't we event hosts set up a board on here to bounce ideas off one another? The more we work together--the more we share ideas--the more all of our games can improve.
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Post by X on Apr 30, 2012 13:08:46 GMT -5
For the field problems, as the owner let me say this. The entire 25 acres playing field has a twine border with orange ribbon marking it. It is the woods, so a lot of deer run through the area. It is very hard to make sure that every part is up, how ever if one looked close, and I did as I walked the field, you could get a clear idea of the boundaries of the field, all though some of it was down. I am sorry this was not taken care of before the game, I will make sure it is for the next one. I was criticized for attempting to pass on my belief and more my hope that yes...My field is the last bastion of Honor in the game of Paintball...Airsoft on the other hand was up to you...and yours. As I stated in my Briefing...Games such as Airsoft and Paintball do not build character, they reveal it. Those that ignore Honor have no place in such games. Yes, it is my wish to make my field the best, I realize the organization of the event was an issue. I have owned, operated Splatmandu for 18 years. With my staff we have organized and created many original Games and sims. I would love the chance to show you all what we have to offer. I want to put together a game for the end of Sept or beg of Oct as a fund raiser for the shelter. I need help. So I put this out to all that complain...now is your chance to get in on the ground floor and do the type of game you want. Anyone interested in helping me with this event PM me. If you dont like something change it...or stop bitching. Now is the chance. Ted Cross Splatmandu My only complaints are that the statement of "Airsoft doesn't build character" is quite a broad stroked remark which I wholeheartedly disagree with. Second, to say your field is the only honorable field seems like a dig at all other establishments. Maybe you didn't mean it this way, but that's how it came off to me. I wouldn't take this personally. I'm merely stating that I disagree. Like I said previously I think your field is great and we appreciate all of the work that goes into building the field, maintaining the field and hosting these games.
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Post by Mirage on Apr 30, 2012 17:04:27 GMT -5
Alright, so first thank you to the field owners for having us out there. That was the first time I've been to that field and I really enjoyed it.. the multiple locations and multiple terrains lead to some pretty good firefights.. I would definately bring my guys out there for another game. The roleplayers did a really good job, especially in the beginning, of providing a great atmosphere.. kudos to them for enhancing the gameplay. Finally, I actually thought that for how many problems this game had before it started, that it was organized fairly well. There was some vagueness in the story, sure, but the gameplay/types of games were pretty fun.
The main problem I had was the sportsmanship.. I think that I can honestly say that in all of my years of airsoft this is top two with the non hit calling. As someone mentioned earlier, I don't know what was in the air/water/etc that made almost everyone have hot tempers and poor decisions. We have video proof and I saw first hand a lot of blatant lying and cheating.. and I feel sorry if this was the first event anyone went to because it couldn't have been fun shooting people and they don't call it.
Also, just to straighten something out in case there is any confusion.. when you get hit, lower your weapon and put your hands up. The incident that 'irked' me most was when a full squad of about 10 tan walked in front of me oblivious to my location. I lined up the middle member and knowing that I had the drop, decided to be nice and aim low and be on semi auto. I plinked him in the leg twice and started to make my way left at the line of ducks all looking in one direction. The guy I hit decided that he was going to turn and shoot at me instead of call his hit and as soon as one of his bb's bounced off my vest, I lowered my weapon and headed off to respawn. Of course we argued about it.. as he was shouting that we hit each other at the same time.. but it was so blatant with him looking the other way that it wasn't possible. I have no idea what team that was or who that was ( I should have asked ), but it was definately pretty lame that someone would get hit, shoot until they hit the person, then start shouting that we hit each other and we're both out so he could save his team from the embarrassment of not checking their corners and covering the flanks of the members in front of him.
Other than that, I did see a bunch of people call their hits accurately and correctly, it is just unfortunate that those people get overlooked while the bad apples take all of the press.
Thanks again to the field owners, the role players, the organizers for their effort, and the players that decided to play honestly and fairly, it made for a pretty good day.
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Post by Mosin on Apr 30, 2012 18:00:37 GMT -5
Video I just finished up from the game. The first half has some water going on the GoPro obviously because the rain and I had no idea else I would have wiped it and given you all a more crisp picture. So sorry for that. Very last portion of the video is what I call "Hot temper syndrome" in which a player believe that he is the level 50 uber1337ness and never misses. Sorry man, you didn't hit me until we basically were both on line shooting at each other: www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6tlHJimJPU&feature=youtu.be
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