Dev
New Member
Future Nightstalker, NSDQ MIA = DRAMA
Posts: 691
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Post by Dev on Oct 30, 2011 16:43:58 GMT -5
Defiantly had a great time at this Op. It was my first Mil-Sim game and I really enjoyed it. All thought the objectives were semi forgotten during gameplay, the story was great and those propaganda posters were hilarious, "I'm still here fuckface".
One problem I did have, although, was that it seems that green team got pretty lax on calling hits during the last hour of gameplay or so. But, regardless of this, I think everyone had a good time.
It's great to be playing airsoft again and I'll definitely going to be returning to Matrix Airsoft in the coming weeks.
P.S. It was great meeting meeting a bunch of new guys, Gorem, Gunny, CT-Man, ect. Hope to see everyone out at another match very soon.
-Dan
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Post by cyclopso on Oct 30, 2011 16:54:17 GMT -5
I have to agree with Dev that this was a great game. This was also my first Mils-Sim type game. The objectives did add something to the gameplay when the Libyan Army had a chance to go for them. Even though we ended up at a bottle neck at the beginning, Knief and the other Hellfish did a nice job of helping our team get a foothold. I have to say that the field is pretty good and that I hope to return in the future. Thanks for the great game Hellfish.
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Post by Alex-(BM_5) on Oct 30, 2011 17:20:40 GMT -5
This was my first game in a long time and it was well worth it. I had a few little things that were bothersome first, people learn the camo's for your team I got team killed quite a few times.
Second please for the love of god call your hits, it wasn't even like I was at distance half the time I would be about 10-25 feet away and clearly see you get hit get alarmed then turn and run.
Third the confusion on the Libyan side kind of killed us, in the beginning we were told we could only spawn in this one point that bottle necked us pretty bad, also there were a lot of people who just shut their radio's off halfway into the game kind of ruining the communication.
Lastly when orders are shouted out it might be smart to follow them, I can't tell you how many times I heard knief, arc or dahm yell something out then people just sit and stare. I'll be the first to admit at time moving was just not gonna happen but the majority of the time it was just people going to the same spot over and over and over.
All and all it was super fun, I'm completely beat and keith, those pulled pork sandwiches were so good I had to have too.
For those that don't know I was the only person on the libyan side with tan camo.
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Post by Gunny87 on Oct 30, 2011 17:53:18 GMT -5
I had a blast today, and first off I want to thank Knief, ARC, and the rest of the Hellfish for hosting another great game as you guys always do. Thanks to Greg Keith, the field owner for hosting us and for sacrificing your time to run these games that I fully believe brings a lot of happiness and comradeship within our community. Both sides fought great. I definitely want to say hats off to the Libyan army for pushing us all the way back to our spawn point numerous times even when it seemed we had control of the field. I saw a lot of great examples of sportsmanship today. On both sides, especially a few people that said "hey nice shot" and what not. Myself and CT man were the two guys that got bang killed at the top of the fort just off the main hill at the front of the field, and while I know bang kills are no longer in effect and while technically our aggressors had us dead to rights if we were all within our engagement limits a Parley should have occurred. However I give you guys props for attacking us. I was also very grateful to not have gotten lit up form close quarters so I gladly accepted the bang kill. Unfortunately while I did experience a lot of great sportsmanship, I did experience some people not calling their hits, at least ones that I was 99% sure that I saw where the person flinched at got behind cover after, or just reacted by looking down where they got shot and then look up and start firing back. And I completely understand that we just can't always be positive because our shots could fall short and what not. However I always give the other person the benefit of the doubt. That's what we have to do in this sport. Hell I actually had two gun hits on me this time so I'm sure the people firing at me probably thought I didn't call my hit. Anyways great job both sides and to the Libyan Army for fighting hard. =) Foxtrot, it was great meeting and playing with you finally as well! See everyone at the next game at Matrix!
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Post by a1 (Babez) on Oct 30, 2011 17:59:30 GMT -5
Good stuff today. I really got down n' dirty at this one.
For those who have complaints:
If things seemed unfair and unbalanced, let us know so we can do whatever we can to make things better.
However, in order for your team to be successful, you must take the initiative to take risks, move, and communicate. I noticed that a lack of combination of the three, is what led to the downfall of either team throughout the day. I did see some laziness at times, and I think that is what caused either side to get holed up at times.
The objectives were fun, but seemed to be ignored a lot. There was a lot of shooting and moving, which I'm glad about.
Thanks for all those who could come out.
EDIT: Yes, hit calling became somewhat of a concern for both teams. There was an instance in which I clearly shot an enemy player from near twenty feet away smack dab in the PC, and the other player just stopped and looked around a bit, then continued to move. I then slapped two more rounds into the player leg before he "saw me" and realized that what shot him was in fact an enemy... IF YOU THINK YOU GOT HIT, YOU PROBABLY DID. I Called myself out plenty of times just because I thought I was hit.
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Biz
New Member
Nickleback is my co-pilot
Posts: 343
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Post by Biz on Oct 30, 2011 19:38:23 GMT -5
Gunny, that would be me who bang killed you guys. I was a bit annoyed at the old man trying to tell me because my gun had a yellow sticker, I couldn't bang kill(what an idiot right?). But thanks for taking it anyway.
Way to many people not calling hits.....I shot a guy in the legs through a pallet 20-30 feet away, first couple missed, then I clearly saw 3 peg his leg and he grabbed his leg in that spot and moved back behind cover, so I thought he was being slow to get up or call the hit or whatever. So I ran out and he shot me, I called my hit and was extremely pissed. And that was only one incident of many I saw, not only from my kills, but a lot of teammates, it happens every game, but I should expect different.
Deffinitly coming back, a great field and even better reffing by knief, and the rest of hellfish running the event.
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Post by Flopper (Ozone) on Oct 30, 2011 20:10:06 GMT -5
Seems like a reoccurring thing at this field in the past couple events. I didn't go today, wish that I did, but .. Work .... Need I say more? Anyways, guys, seriously call the damn hit. I don't like seeing this becoming a habit for this field. It never was a problem at all. Now it's appearing to become like cancer and spreading. You guys seriously need to call the hit. You don't look like a noob because you got hit, you don't look like you suck if you got hit, you look like an honest player who loves the sport and takes it serious, maybe not as serious as some of us T00L$ (cough ATM), but enough to actually CALL IT. I showed up during the last 45 minutes of the day just to come out and say hey, and I talked with a few guys and each one of them bitched about no hit calling. Step it the fuck up, be an honest player, take the hit, walk to spawn, and get back in. You're paying to play sure and shoot your l@z0rgunz, but you're also paying to be HIT, so take the hit and spawn. You're still going to get your moneys worth. It's a game guys, don't cheat. I didn't even play today and I'm getting pissed about this, so I can't imagine what would have happened with my SSG today, I probably would have quit. You're only putting a big pile of dog shit on your name if you don't call the hits consistently. Sure there's that occasional "was I hit?" everyone has that, n00b or Pr0z, but if you're taking 15 hits and saying "oh.. look you missed", and still playing, you're making yourself look bad, and ruining it for everyone else.
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Post by BlackJack on Oct 30, 2011 20:10:10 GMT -5
I also had a great time! While I didn't actually play, I was the guy in the yellow vest taking pictures of everyone. Got some really awesome shots and met a lot of great guys today. Thanks to Kneif and Shorty for reffing and the rest of the Hellfish that put this on. Great job guys and damn I can't wait to actually get a gun! I started a new thread in "The Gallery" with a link to the pics on a photo hosting site. miairsoft.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=gallery&thread=40804&page=1Justin PS. Sorry if I was in anyone's way today. It was my first time photographing an airsoft game.
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Post by M.S.-ARC on Oct 30, 2011 20:41:18 GMT -5
Good job on the photos. Thanks to everyone who made it out and thanks to matrix airsoft for giving us a great venue. This place can only continue to get better from here.
We had a great morning. Knief asked about any issues right before we went back in after lunch and we had no complaints at that point. I feel as if the second half was a little bit of an issue. There were definitely some cases on both sides where people were convinced they hit the other person. Like what knief said during briefing, we are not as good shots as we think we are. For me, not calling a hit can be just as annoying as someone yelling "call it".
I think that if anyone were shooting between cracks and through brush, your chances of the bb actually going through without hitting anything is slim to none. It looks good coming out of the gun and going into those tight areas but from that point I highly doubt it found its way to the target. I personally just make it a habit not even to attempt those shots.
As for gun hits, I believe those have also caused some issues as gunny mentioned. I too had my gun or parts of my gun hit maybe three different times. I think just to be safe, from now on we should just count those as actual hits so there is no confusion but that's just my thoughts. I'm sure both of those scenarios will account for the majority of those seemingly not calling their hits but it doesn't account for all. It just makes it a better game for everyone if we all called it. We weren't playing for prizes or money, we were all there doing the same thing and playing for fun so just call it next time and try to get even with the someone on the opposite team your next time out.
With all that said I don't think anyone can really say that they didn't have a good time. We all got to do what we would get arrested for anywhere else. We all shot someone and we all got shot and have fun stories to tell about it now. There should be a little more emphasis put on that and we should all just try to make the effort to be honest and at the same time not be the guy that constantly yells "call it".
It was my first time there and from now on I will be a regular there for sure.
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Post by snafu on Oct 30, 2011 21:38:17 GMT -5
With all that said I don't think anyone can really say that they didn't have a good time. We all got to do what we would get arrested for anywhere else. We all shot someone and we all got shot and have fun stories to tell about it now. There should be a little more emphasis put on that and we should all just try to make the effort to be honest and at the same time not be the guy that constantly yells "call it". That is airsoft in a nutshell, I've noticed when playing with more experienced players that I have no issues with hit calling at all. The new guys will learn that its not all about being super 1337 kill streak guy, either that or they will quit then its good riddance to them. I really wish I had been there but I had family stuff that I had to do.
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Post by Phantom on Oct 31, 2011 9:03:27 GMT -5
Was also my first Milsim; had a great time. Thanks to Greg and the Hellfish guys for putting on this event; guys did a excellent job and will be looking foward to more events down the road.
This is my 2nd time playing at the Matrix Airsoft Field, if you haven't been here yet, come out and play. This field is very good and Greg has done a great job setting this up. A lot room to move around, great trails and cover.
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Post by Kurt 19D on Oct 31, 2011 9:50:28 GMT -5
Had a great time. Well planned as always Hellfish. I especially like the 15 minute respawns. Gives a chance to either side if they are getting pounded to make an organized push.
Comms were good on the U.S. side. Let everyone know where help was needed and status on objectives. Don't under estimate good comms!
Well said Arc. This is the one pass time I can honestly say I have never had a bad time. For me it is all about the little battles within the game. Having someone not a call hit doesn't ruin a thing for me because I know there is another firefight right around the corner. Think of it this way, in real life one hit doesn't always take the tango down.
So I assume the U.S. side won???
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Post by Gimpalong on Oct 31, 2011 10:11:54 GMT -5
This was my first time playing on this field and I had a great time.
The geography of the field lends itself to a fast-paced game where movement is encouraged. The liberal scattering of bunkers, cable rolls and other forms of hard cover provide players with plenty of "safe" areas to move between. In my experience, having lots of hard cover (as opposed to brush, shrubs, small trees and logs) encourages a faster and more aggressive style of game, which I prefer. The southern end of the field (near the U.S. "Dead-Zone" to the top of the hill) could use some solid bunkers to replace the camouflage tarps currently in place. Building up the cover in these areas would probably encourage a bit more action on this side of the field.
Aside from a few magazine related issues (anyone who knows how to get magazines that constantly jam to feed correctly, please PM me), the whole day was a good experience. I personally encountered no issues with hit calling. I did hear complaints about failures to obey engagement limits.
I really enjoyed having the balloons scattered across the field to hunt. I also enjoyed the math problem and the use of the target board. These sort of things give the game a bit more depth and definitely add to the overall experience.
One thing I did encounter that was a bit irksome (but not a huge deal) was having to basically guard Libyan players who were out-of-bounds lest they enter the playing field right on top of myself and M.S. Arc.
Towards the end of the day, King, M.S. Arc and I were at the northwestern bunker at top of the hill (northwestern corner of the field, directly up the hill from the Libyan dead-zone). We were about 20 feet from the out-of-bounds tape-line with a bunker between us and out-of-bounds players beyond the tap-line. While M.S. Arc shot at in-bounds player advancing from the east (up the hill), I had to spend time watching the out-of-bounds Libyan players to prevent them from entering the field essentially right on top of us. There was a bit of banter back and forth and I remarked on how ridiculous the situation was. After having shot out several players who entered the field (i.e., ducked the tap-line and walked on) less than 30 feet downhill from us, Arc and I were finally eliminated.
While I understand that the Libyan players had "unlimited respawn" at this time and that entering the field from the northwestern corner was technically "legal," I think that in the name of fair play these players should have entered at the very bottom of the field or at least far enough to the east (downhill) of us that they weren't using the same bunker system that we were in.
Had a referee come along and asked us to move back (essentially, to give up ground) so that Libyan players could enter the field, I would have happily complied.
However, sitting out-of-bounds at the tape-line waiting for an opposing player to look the other way or to engage legitimate in-bounds players so that you can duck the tape-line and shoot someone 20 feet from your location is just poor sportsmanship.
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Post by Gunny87 on Oct 31, 2011 12:27:51 GMT -5
Yeah I too watched the massive amount of Libyan side players enter the field from the top of the hill right on top of the bunker where the U.S. Forces were occupying and definitely agreed that they should have been required to only enter the field of play from where their spawn point was.
And like Gimpalong said if we were too close or were spawn camping that we should have been told to move back.
For future games entering the AO from your spawn point only should be enforced, and I know Greg Keith already acknowledged this and is already in the process of resolving this, but the field definitely needs to be marked off a little better which would help eliminate this problem.
There's a couple little "improvements" that I thought of now where at the top of the hill where the old staging area was that I'll mention to Greg to improve gameplay this weekend or whenever the next time I go there is.
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Post by Knief on Oct 31, 2011 13:43:20 GMT -5
I'm going to reverse order this bitch.
Gunny,
I set up the Libyan spawn with the intention of allowing them to enter the field anywhere along the tape line, and I informed them that they could do it. The bottom corner is far too sparse to push from effectively, especially if you have 15-20 people all spawning in at the same time. Spreading them up the entire width of the field forces the other team to engage multiple locations, which spreads out game play a lot more. Plus, they're the occupying force. In the scenario, they control Tripoli, which means reinforcements could be coming from all over. With the way the field is currently set up, spawning that team from a single location just wouldn't have worked (and didn't work when they tried it over and over). Now, when we get a few buildings erected on the lower plateau, I think it'll be a different case.
I didn't anticipate having to give them instant spawns (because you never expect one team to get rolled as hard as they did at some points), which is what caused the problem that gimpalong cited. And that's a fair concern for sure. I wasn't up on the hill when it happened so I didn't get a chance to correct it, but those guys should have either waited or headed down the hill a bit before coming in. That's just good sportsmanship, which everybody should show even if they are getting their asses handed to them.
Kurt,
There was no real score to keep, but if we were then yeah, the US side won handily. The US team captured and held the money for most of the day, popped all of their balloons both before and after lunch, and hit the right target. They didn't, however, graffiti as many posters as I would have thought. They got a bunch, but there were far more un-dicked posters by the end of the day than there were dicked posters. The Libyans, aside from effectively distributing propaganda, popped all but two of their balloons by the end of the day, and controlled 3 packages of cash for a while, but couldn't hold it to the end of the day. They were able to get within range of their target, solve their math problem correctly, identify the correct target to shoot, and spray the ever loving shit out the target next to the correct target before actually hitting it. Thus, they lost that objective.
That said, the real downfall of the Libyan team was, as mentioned, a lack of team work. I saw a lot of lone wolf pushes and very little communication, support fire and coordination that didn't involve me, Dahm and Guns McBen yelling instructions and pushing players from one bunker to the next. When they did work together, they were able to push the more experienced US team all the way back to respawn and hold the over-looking ridge for all but the last 15 minutes of the morning stint. They had the ability stay competitive and win, they just weren't able to put it into effect. And as always the team with the better communication won.
And the hit calling. To be completely honest, I saw very few real issues. Hell, I heard of very few real issues on game day. I didn't even hear that many people yelling across the field about it. One thing I've noticed is that as fall hits and leaves start to drop off of trees, sight lines get a lot longer and folks start thinking that distances are shorter than they actually are. I think one of the direct results of that is the inflated perception of cheating that isn't really happening. I know we've all stood behind some thick brush and had a visible player on the other side unload at us, only to have every last bb deflected away. Similarly, we've all had the guy shooting at us from 250 feet away and try to call us out for cheating when his bbs were falling 30 feet short. From what I could tell, that accounts for at least half of the perceived at yesterday's game. The other half, some combination of the isolated cheating that will always happen at airsoft games and the innocent mistakes that our equipment forces us into all the time (hitting a plate carrier from a long way away and your target can't hear it or distinguish it as a hit, hitting a guy while he's running and he can't feel it, gun hits that make a guy flinch but don't actually hit him but you saw him flinch so he must have been hit, stuff like that).
I'm not saying that some people didn't disregard a hit here and there. With 50 guys firing probably around 50,000 bbs in a 5 hour window, it's just good odds that some of those hits are going to be disregarded, whether it's intentionally or not. What I didn't see, though, was malicious cheating. Most instances were just new guys who aren't used to picking out that thwap sound of a bb hitting nylon or differentiating between the poke of a branch and the poke of a long range round. The only way for them to learn is to get that experience in games like this, and to build up that instinct to call out when you feel the shot, not look around for the enemy.
Overall, I thought this game went very well. The Libyans struggled, but got their chances too. The players on both sides were absolutely outstanding. The few instances mentioned above aside, the sportsmanship demonstrated by both teams was great. It looked to me like everybody was enjoying themselves, and rolling with the minor speed bumps that always come up on game day. We got everything started on time, the chrono stand went smoothly after we figured out that that first gun was actually shooting 115 FPS and my chrono wasn't just set on meters per second. We only had to disallow two guns, and I think both shooters were able to work their way into the game with loaners. The objectives went well, especially with the surprisingly hard to pop balloons. I think we're going to make the math problem a little tougher next time, now that we know players don't mind doing algebra in the middle of a fire fight.
As always, what makes a game great is the players, and yesterday was no exception. As long as you guys are willing to show up and make our jobs easy (sort of, I still have no voice), we'll keep putting these things on for you. Greg has been fantastic to work with, and as long as he's ok with us taking control of his park once a month, I think this will be the new permanent home for Hellfish games. Expect to see some changes and expansions to the field by early next spring.
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