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Post by Dahm on Jan 29, 2011 18:30:20 GMT -5
Well, I just got back from Arctic Squall in Charlotte, MI. Overall it was alright. I showed up around 9:15 or so and started getting my things together. I found it very disappointing that I spent 2 hours waiting for the game to start, as we started at 11:30 instead of 10:30 like it was scheduled.
Once things got started, planning seemed well thought through and organized. There was not very much confusion about objectives and rules.
Cheating didn't seem to be an issue except for one instance of blind firing (unconfirmed by a referee), so that was good.
The teams were very poorly split up however. The green side had zero chance all day long. Many green members were inexperienced, and of the players we had, some chose to leave early. This was one of the low points of the day, which made it hard for the it to be a "competition".
The other downside was cost. The game cost $25 for the day, which covered play time from 11:30 - 2pm, and 2:30ish - 5pm. To me, this is a bit high considering I don't see any money going back into the field. Its all profit for the host/field owner. If there was vast improvements over the last time I played here, I wouldn't mind paying $25 at all. However, with the amount of players that attended (50 or less - I think), and little to no improvements made to the field, I don't feel like my money was as well spent as it could have been.
Overall, I had fun but the unintentionally stacked teams, high cost, and late start drove the fun factor way down. I still had a good time slinging plastic and shooting the bull with friends.
CAVEAT: I wasn't wearing a watch so times are approximate.
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Bern
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Post by Bern on Jan 29, 2011 19:02:40 GMT -5
The teams were very poorly split up however. The green side had zero chance all day long. Many green members were inexperienced, and of the players we had, some chose to leave early. This was one of the low points of the day, which made it hard for the it to be a "competition". Canto spoke with us at the end of the game about this; he is thinking of changing a camouflage color over to the green team to even things out, most likely ACU. I had a great time playing with everyone, this is definitely better than a Rec Game in my opinion due to the camaraderie achieved when on the same team with the same people for the entire game. Aside from the things stated by Dahm, there would really be nothing else I would change, save the part where my battery dies and my glasses fog as if a fog machine were shooting directly at it.
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Post by Gimpalong on Jan 29, 2011 19:35:36 GMT -5
Overall, not a bad game. The Charlotte field is always a joy to play on with the wide variety of environments present.
The tan team had a distinct advantage throughout the day. I know everyone loves to be grouped into teams of similar camouflage, but a lot of the "team stack" issues that crop up from time to time could be solved simply by lining everyone up and counting "one, two, one, two," etc and then handing out red and yellow tape armbands. I know this is not "milsim," but at least it would result in a game with two relatively even sides.
I agree with Dahm on the high cost, limited time of the game. $25 is pretty high for even a traditional "milsim" game. Moreover, $25 for less than six hours of play is a bit much.
On the plus side, Canto and the rest of the staff did a good job in adjusting the objectives and spawn locations to take into account changes in the flow of play.
I look forward to the next game.
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Post by Overkill on Jan 29, 2011 19:56:47 GMT -5
We had tons of gun issues and a lot of the guys wanted to bail early, or we would have stayed longer. Had a few fun rushes, but otherwise we couldn't seem to get people motivated for a dedicated push anywhere. A few good firefights here and there. I think our team was poorly prepped for a winter game though, we need to get some stuff in order before we try another one...
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Post by Gunny87 on Jan 29, 2011 21:27:27 GMT -5
I Just want to say thanks again to Canto and the members of Armory Airsoft/FLAK for doing their best to host a great game. I found it to be ran very well. Between the weather wreaking havoc on the players themselves, their guns, batteries, gear etc I can definitely understand why many players left early. Obviously the uneven teams was definitely one of the biggest issues today. And I've played many games and have been on both sides. And it's definitely not fun when your on the disadvantaged side. What Canto suggested about switching ACU (which there were many players wearing) over to green would have helped. And two suggestions that I have that I think might have helped make things a little more even. #1: If it looks like the teams are going to be uneven, give the team that might be disadvantaged the trenches for a re-spawn, and the team that looks to have the advantage the sand bag bunker. The trenches has better defenses than the sand bag bunker so that may help. #2: Give the disadvantaged team control of the trenches for an attack/defend scenario, or also let them start out in the village (which I know the latter was already tried today and worked with limited success.) But to those on green that stayed and fought to the end, I would like to say thanks for staying and fighting and for keeping us on our toes. Great sportsmanship Great job of course to everyone on tan today. It was really great to see everyone today and to get to play with many people that normally I play against as well. I was bummed that my comms decided to fail today which limited my effectiveness as a C.O. but thanks to Ehlers, Marshy and anyone else that I forgot for taking orders and relaying them to the team for me!
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California
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Captain of GodSpeed Airsoft
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Post by California on Jan 29, 2011 22:10:00 GMT -5
Same here I felt that the op was very unbalanced for the first half. But I had 300% more fun the second half than the first. Yes I also agree that the cost was a bit pricey. I was rolling on the green side and I like the competition of a good ol firefight even tho green was for sure screwed I had a blast holding off the tan from taking the boat house. That was a great battle. Yes without a co for green team we were a little unorganized but can't say we didn't try... All around I feel it was a fun op. Both teams seem to play fair with mild problems for each side, great job can't wait for the next one!!
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Post by Ghast on Jan 29, 2011 23:22:45 GMT -5
I had a blast, did work on the Tan team by sneaking up around the southwest of the field. I agree with all previous sentiments made.
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Post by King on Jan 29, 2011 23:46:03 GMT -5
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Master_Oki_Akai
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The Urban Medic
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Post by Master_Oki_Akai on Jan 30, 2011 12:08:14 GMT -5
Kills: 1 Heals: 35 Yup, we pretty much covered it. Winter GamesAll people can do is be properly prepared. Make sure batteries are charged. Have at least one extra battery for your weapon. Keep it warm or insulated when not in use. Bring your battery charger just in case. If you have the money, have a backup weapon prepared. Same goes for radios and keeping spare batteries. Weapon failures were rampant I know but probably the worst that I saw was the poor kid whose ARES M4 lower receiver snapped at the rear, taking the stock, the buffer tube and the mount with it! Keeping yourself warm and comfortable enough to keep playing is crucial. I know we had a lot of new players out there and all it takes is once for people to learn their lesson about wearing proper clothing. Team ImbalanceYeah this part just made things boring and turned into a wash-rinse-repeat cycle. But it's what we all made of it. People first get the option to do what they want. Then they are encouraged by the community or their own interests in competition to reorganize their standing. Finally they are encouraged by event staff to switch teams if they are willing and able. And if all else fails we just have to force groups back and forth based on their camo choices. And that has no guarantee for compensating in number or skill level. The arm band thing, while simple in concept, is not terribly efficient in this context. Consider that players train to quickly recognize and group targets by their camouflage first, then add that most players see each others bodies only in part or at long distance. Finally add in the friendly fire incidents we've had in the last few games. Winter games are harsh, arguably more so than hot summer games where we have the ability to make things bigger and more complex. Myself personally, I was very disappointed I didn't get my P90. Though I was very happy to be out medicing again and that I was able to help more of our new players.
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Post by Timm on Jan 30, 2011 18:10:19 GMT -5
King, your camera is the tits.
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Post by oneshotonemiss on Jan 30, 2011 18:17:53 GMT -5
Canto thanks for putting together the event. I thought it went smoothly with the exception of a large defection right before lunch.
Overall the event was pretty much what we expected.
I thought the cost was steep for a winter event. I am not implying that the cost was due to you Canto. I understand that Chaos demands a certain amount for the field rental, but at the same time, if the event wasn't held, the field wouldn't generate any revenue. I agree with a point made earlier, I haven't seen any improvements to the field since I first played there in July. For the cost of Saturday's admission, I would like to see some up improvements.
We almost didn't come when we weighed the cost vs. the probablility of equipment malfunctions. It sucks to pay and then have to sit out due to weather or even non-weather related issues. We had extra gear and rifles, but most (especially the newer players) don't have that luxury.
Regarding the gameplay, Tan had the more experienced team and the results confirmed that. Green lacked agressive play. I think that Green should have been put on defense at the trenches and in the city. If they were getting pushed around, give them the better defensive positions and make it a challenge for Tan.
Trying to balance the teams during the event is hit or miss. Player involvement, gun issues, and defections are difficult to balance out. Besides, many of the players are going to do their own thing anyways. Next event, for all we know, the experienced players will all be wearing green. I advocate against trying to engineer the teams.
Another point I would like to make, is that when persons try to lead, they are regarded as a know-it-all and that is putting it in family friendly terms. I have heard muttering about that every single event I have been to. I say just play the day out, and make the challenges harder for the better team.
Just my two cents.
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Master_Oki_Akai
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Post by Master_Oki_Akai on Jan 30, 2011 19:13:55 GMT -5
Allow me to also make a comment on leadership, not to counter or contradict oneshot, just to expand here, and maybe help our new readers/players.
First, this is another area where there is a distinct difference between real life and video games. Now I'm saying this as someone who has consistently and over many years, built online teams and as someone who has taken the role of team and squad commander at Armory Airsoft's events.
Now I wish that all it took was intelligence and experience to make a player into a viable leader. But just like online, the guy with the highest kill/death ratio is not necessarily the person who is going to be able to coordinate a team of 30+ people to move and act around the field with efficiency.
Now I've had the "know-it-all" line thrown at me on multiple occasions, so I know it does happen, mostly online from self-important players whose goal was simply to do their own thing and have people stay out of their way. Well that just doesn't work in real life.
Commanders need to have the physical appearance and bearing to invoke the respect (in whatever level) of the players under their command. They also need to have the strength of voice to express clarity and authority so other players will actually listen to them. A squeely voiced short kid with a springer isn't going to be taken seriously on any level. And any player who cannot speak clearly in person or over the radio becomes more likely to just be ignored as the team gets more frustrated trying to interpret their orders.
Now everybody who was paying attention at the briefing noticed that both teams COs failed to appear. Tan team's XO stepped up to fill the role and he did the best he could all things considered. But when green team was prompted to produce a leader from their own ranks, they couldn't do it. There wasn't even the usual little cocky kid there to step up. I'm sure (meaning this is just my opinion) that everyone there was thinking that they were either unqualified or didn't want the heavy responsibility of being CO or they just wanted to shoot and not worry about anything else.
Now these events are not run-n-gun free for alls where the person who thinks they have the heaviest sack can just go and dominate the field. Save that crap for your little HALO fantasies.
Now what I get the feeling oneshot was talking about was not about COs, because that would imply that leaders are lame and that the team didn't step up because they didn't want to be uncool. That would be a ridiculous assertion. Rather I think what he means are the players on the front line who start barking orders at the other players. And in that case the same rules apply. If the player cannot inspire confidence in the players he's addressing, nothing is going to happen and he's just going to be annoying. But if you got somebody on the field next to you who is smarter or more experienced than you, or who has a line of communication to the commander/objectives, then it behooves you to listen and accept that you do not know better than them.
However, having said all that, we all know that some people are just better off keeping their mouths shut. But every player must learn how to take their ques from other players, whether they know them or not. Again, run-n-gun players have their place, but the people who win and who actually earn the respect of others in REAL life are those who communicate and cooperate as a group.
Use myself as an example if you'd like. People who know me know what I'm about and what I can do and on the field they look for me and usually listen. But I don't want to be a CO again. I'm somebody who needs to be on the field moving. People respond well to me because I'm the guy who keeps them alive. Outside of that I have neither the bearing or the reputation to command their attention or demand their respect. And that's just me. Everybody should know just where they stand in these terms. Some people lead, some follow. Taking orders does not make you into a sheep and ignoring orders you don't agree with doesn't mean you're smarter or have better instincts. Usually it means exactly the opposite.
But the number 1 tool any leader or commander must have in their inventory is a WORKING goddamn RADIO! ;D
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beta08
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Post by beta08 on Jan 31, 2011 12:24:21 GMT -5
If anything was worth $25 I'd say it was King's pics. Nice job bro. Regardless, it was a good time.
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Post by mattimis on Jan 31, 2011 17:15:31 GMT -5
I was thinking of ways to solve the disorganization problem. I think perhaps we should try to not only establish CO and XO ahead of time, but also 3 squad leaders. And make a great effort to maintain squad coherency during game. I've noticed that squads break up real fast because some are killed and have to trek back to respawn and can't refind their squad, can't remember who was in their squad, or just head towards the nearest firefight. I think that the XO or other type of "officer" should have the task of being in the field with a radio redirecting stragglers back to where their units are. I think that next game I'll bring extra radios into the field with me for any leaders who need them and to counteract radio fail. Think it might help, or just too complicated?
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Post by Canto on Jan 31, 2011 18:08:36 GMT -5
Hey everyone. Sorry for the delay in responding here. I would like to thank everyone for bearing with us for the bitterly cold temperatures and rampant gun failure. Despite the issues, I hope everyone had fun... I agree with a lot of your above statements. I will try my best and answer concerns in the order they were presented. Late Start Time - Yeah, I agree. I was very disappointed with this as well. But when almost half of one entire side wasn't there, there isn't a whole lot we can do. Delaying the event isn't fun, but sometimes in a necessary evil. I guess we will have to start instituting Tex's style of extremely strict start times along with prepayment/increased walk-on payments to solve this problem. Because I agree with everyone on this issue, it does ruin the event. Field Improvements - This is something we have zero control over. We can build anything we want on Bangor, because we can set the entire field up according to how we (the players) want it. At Chaos, they have a system and they follow it. Unbalanced Teams - This normally happens at events... It sucks, but we have to deal with it the best we can. I have switched ACU and ABU over to the green side of things for Desolation next month. A bit of a trial run to see how it works in balancing both numbers and experience levels. Team Commanders Or Lack There Of - We need people to sign up for these positions. To be honest here, I tried to have green team break down into smaller squads with radio operators to compensate for the lack of commanders. I have lowered the admission price for Codename: Desolation to $20.00 to help compensate for this event. It didn't go as planned and I apologize for that guys... To look on the bright side of this event... - Almost zero hit calling incidents (that were reported). - Zero major goggle violations. - I didn't hear anyone getting heated over anything that went awry during this game. - Everyone seemed to have a positive attitude. Again, thanks to everyone for attending.
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