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Post by triggs on Aug 1, 2010 14:04:03 GMT -5
Triggs, I understand all that and I know the difficulty with using a bolt action sniper rifle. I personally just enjoy using bolt action rifle because it's a long time working progress that I can have fun with. Plus I greatly enjoy the simplicity of them and how I can silently take people out even if they have a much more useful gun than mine. Sniping is a challenge and it's one that I like to overcome. That being said I appreciate you trying to help but it's information that has been stated many times and I know all to well. Fuzzy, I agree the thing already has plenty of power. My gun chronoed yesterday at 438fps with .28 bbs and that was with literally no modifications to the gun other than fixing some mechanical issues. The UTG I have also came stock with a 6.02 tightbore barrel so I don't really have a need to change that though increasing the barrel length may be useful. As far as I have seen my hop up will also suffice for now. I want the durability upgrades because I would be greatly saddened if something died in the middle of one of my games kind of like it did yesterday. Fortunantly there was an airsoft tech at the field who helped me fix my problem. Anyways we have gone a bit off topic. Do you know of any good durability upgrades I could buy for the UTG? I am already planning on buying a real steel bolt because mine was chewed up from a loose part inside it. ;D that particular comment wasn't for you, it was for a few other "special" members we have here that don't understand the differences. Not naming names, but you know you are. The UTG may come with a "6.02" tightbore from the factory, but it's not just the bore, it's also the consistency of the bore. And flat out clone companies do not have that quality and consistency. It's easy to drill any size hole, but the hard part is drilling that hole straight and consistent. Something clone companies do not do well at all. The first durability upgrade would be trigger and bolt sears. But you might as well just buy the parts, and wait until the original ones break to actually install them. The other upgrades would be a quality metal spring guide, piston, cylinder, cylinder head. It's still highly recommended that you invest in a quality tightbore. However a longer barrel will not increase your accuracy, past 509mm~ there is virtually no change in accuracy from a 509mm to a 650mm barrel.
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fuzzywolly
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Post by fuzzywolly on Aug 1, 2010 14:17:51 GMT -5
It sounds like you should just throw away the UTG and get a Maruzen, keep things simple. And before it's brought up, being an airsoft sniper is NOT cheap. The initial investment is expensive, but the upgrades and replacements and labor are even more expensive. If one thing is true, it is that clone sniper rifles actually are crap when compared to other high end ones. They break too easily. From experiance I have concluded that. With the money you would spend on upgrading a UTG, you could keep instead, sell the replica, then splurge on a stock maruzen and work from there. I have been using my clone rifle for years now, and the stock shows no sign of breaking on me. Its falling numerous times and has taken a beating. A clone rifle is inferior to the higher end rifles, but that does not mean it cannot get the job done. Treat the rifle well, and you will be able to have it perform just like one of the higher end rifles. And to recon, like triggs said, buying a replacement bolt does not need to be installed right away. I have a guarder real steel one at the ready, but still have not needed it. The thing is, there is a small piece in the stock bolt that is needed for the upgraded bolt. In order to use it, the small piece needs to be sanded down. Doing this wrong is one thing, but doing it wrong even though your original bolt was still in check is another. So go ahead and buy the bolt handle, but hold out installing it for now. And trigger sears, piston sears, etc. will increase your durability, however, that does not mean other parts will not break on you. The trigger box itself on my rifle is wearing down, and is slowly cracking. But it is still holding up nonetheless. With even just a trigger sear installed, you will notice that the trigger pull is now very easy and light, which is a plus in my book. Smooth trigger pull is something I want with my rifle. Here is a link to my guide for upgrading a clone or even maruzen rifle. Link: airsoftsniper.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=haveauniquerifle&action=display&thread=1624
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Post by a1 (Babez) on Aug 1, 2010 15:01:11 GMT -5
All the WELL and UTG sniper rifles I have used have broken in the midst of battle. Pull the bolt back, then *SNAP* there goes the sear.
If you do treat it well, then I do beleive it can do you wonders, but I've only had negative experiances with them. If you do decide to keep the UTG (which theres no problem with that,) I'd put in a new sear/trigger assembly, one that will last and can withstand a heavier spring if you do decide to upgrade that or not.
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fuzzywolly
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Post by fuzzywolly on Aug 1, 2010 15:21:22 GMT -5
I understand where you are coming from a1. And you are correct in saying itleast upgrade the sears. I actually only upgraded the trigger sear so far, and it is still holding strong. I read somewhere that the trigger sear takes the most wear anyways.
The piston sear and spring guide stopper is hard to find. Dentrinity has them in stock along with a whole new trigger box as well. That is something to look into too as either path will increase durability.
And take this advice, if nothing else. Do not upgrade the spring, even with a new trigger box. There are other areas such as cylinder parts that you need to upgrade as well. Do not worry about the spring. Save that for the end when your rifle is capable of holding up in every spot, not just a few spots.
Good luck with either path you choose.
Fuzzy
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Post by recon337 on Aug 1, 2010 17:40:16 GMT -5
Fuzzy and Triggs,
Thank you very much. Finally there are some people that actually answered the question.
So just to make sure I got everything right I'm going to repeat what upgrades I should have at the ready for when my stock parts break down.
I will need: 1) An upgraded metal cylinder assembly minus the spring. 2) A new real steel bolt (this I need to get soon because I literally tore the crap out of the teeth on it) 3) A quality tightbore 4) Piston and trigger sears 5) Eventually a new trigger box
Also do either of you know how long the inner barrel is currently in the Shadow Ops L96?
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Post by triggs on Aug 1, 2010 18:20:21 GMT -5
I believe it's around 515mm I remember it's an odd length that's not easily replaced. I would certainly look at those upgrades, though perhaps in a different order. If it truly shoots 438 with .28's it's got a heck of a spring, and you'll need new sears very soon. 1) Trigger & piston sears 2) new steel bolt 3) quality tightbore 4) cylinder assembly 5) trigger box Eventually you end up replacing everything and going Whiskey Tango Foxtrot why did I spend this much money
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fuzzywolly
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Post by fuzzywolly on Aug 1, 2010 18:35:10 GMT -5
The barrel length is 499mm. Triggs was right about the odd number I had to cut mine down from 509mm to 499. If you plan on getting a new hop up, you will find the aeg barrels do not come in this length. There is a m14 barrel (500mm) but I read that it was only for the m14 hop up. Not sure on this, but I got a 509mm barrel and my friend cut it down with some machine. Worst case, you do not have that kind of tools, and just need to remove the end cap until you get a flash hider to cover up the barrel. As for the piston, I recommend the laylax piston, but in order to use that you need the accuracy cup made by laylax as well. Otherwise, the piston itself is useless and will not work. Other cylinder parts include the actual cylinder, cylinder head, and spring guide. That would set you up with everything you need involving the cylinder parts minus the spring. Going all laylax would make things simple, and avoids compatibility issues. You could go all pdi too, or a mix, but I personnely love the laylax parts and have had no issues with them so far at all. The other parts would be the hop up parts. The pdi hop up chamber is great, and allows the use of the aeg barrels, which are cheap and easy to come by. Get a prommy barrel, they are great as far as I am concerned. Then get a new bucking, I prefer a soft one. The upgraded sears should hold you off for a while. Then in the future a zero trigger would be fine and dandy. That leaves you with the final upgrade for the internals involving the spring. This is the point that triggs said is where you are thinking where is my money??? Notice some parts are not durability parts but I thought I would throw that in to give you an idea. As far as upgrading order, I prefer the hop up parts first along with the sears for durability. Then the cylinder parts, and then the whole new trigger assembly. Then a spring. Fuzzy
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Post by recon337 on Aug 1, 2010 19:12:56 GMT -5
Thanks guys I appreciate it. Plus 1 for each of you! I'm going to just stick with the durability for now. Later on when I'm done with college or if I make excess amounts of money during the summer I'll actually begin to buy the expensive things like the cylinder set ups and the hop ups. For now though college is just going to rape me of all my cash .
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fuzzywolly
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Post by fuzzywolly on Aug 1, 2010 19:18:37 GMT -5
Alright, sounds good. Good luck, and if you have any other questions let us know. One of us is bound to know
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Post by Thundernuts Cockpunch on Aug 2, 2010 22:39:37 GMT -5
Upgrading a clone and the maruzen with the same internals will make both rifles perform exactly the same. If every part inside is replaced with lets say laylax parts, then obviously both will shoot the same. However, the maruzen offers a lot over the clone. A stronger stock, bolt handle, barrel, and other externals are far superior of the clone rifles. Same with the stock internals as well. However, if you plan on buying a clone rifle such as the mk96, and replace every internal, it will shoot just as well as a fully upgraded maruzen. Its just a matter of having to deal with a "toyish" stock, which is present with the clone rifle (mk96). Not a big deal to me, as I have found the rifle (mk96) to hold up fairly well. Bullshit. I'd like to see you find one clone that shoots anywhere near as good as Livonia's rifle. That's like saying if you put a Ferrari engine in a Tempo it'll be just as good.
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Post by recon337 on Aug 3, 2010 8:16:57 GMT -5
Lolwut?, You aren't giving the clones enough credit. Granted some of them are truly pieces of crap, but that isn't always the case. First off a much better comparison would be trying to put a high end Ferrari engine in a custom car that someone made to resemble a Ferrari but only had a average V6 engine on hand. The UTG is actually quite sturdy on the outside. It has basically the same external parts as Maruzen (minus the bolt and trigger assembly). If you read the whole thread you would have seen that this was basically my original question and it was answered thanks to fuzzy and triggs (thanks again ). The problem with the clones is that they have pretty crappy internals that aren't very durable. Basically if I replace the crappy internals for ones that equal the standard of the Maruzen, I would have pretty much the same gun. Now it won't ever have the exact feel of a Maruzen but you can make it perform just as well for just as long with the right parts in place. So using your comparison, doing this would kind of be like taking a tempo and keeping only the outer frame, while replacing the engine, suspension, intake, exhaust, brakes, tires, body frame, and all of the screws, bolts, nuts, and other pieces holding it together for Ferrari standard parts. If you shop well you will actually end up saving about $200 bucks in parts in the end because you would upgrade basically all of the same parts in the clone that you would upgrade eventually in the Maruzen anyway. So yes If you take a stock Maruzen and a stock UTG, gut them, then swap out all of the parts in both along with the bolts and trigger boxes for upgraded aftermarket parts you will come out of the dust with 2 basically identical guns. They would perform and look exactly the same. Like I originally said at the beginning the differences between the two are the internals, the bolt, and the trigger box. Fix those and who can tell the difference. ;D
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Post by triggs on Aug 3, 2010 8:33:22 GMT -5
Actually it's pretty easy to tell, as Kender pointed out the Maruzen has a metal sub frame so there is a distinct weight difference. Of course you wouldn't notice if you've never held one, but I have and it is noticeable.
Also the quality of the plastic is somewhat different in my experience, the Maruzen feels better, but again unless you've held both it's VERY hard to tell.
Livonia's rifles shoot extremely well, but you know why? Because he spends a lot of time upgrading and tuning his rifles. You're comparing a highly upgraded rifle to a stock clone, it doesn't work that way. Most clones are indeed junk and the UTG L96 has never been a good replica. However, it is a cheap starting point because, internally if everything is upgrade with the same parts as its Maruzen counter-part the differences are virtually non-existent. It's simple logic.
As Recon said your comparison is more like comparing a Ferrari, to a car that looks like a Ferrari with the engine from a sedan. Of course the Ferrari would win. But drop the same engine/suspension in, and you have yourself a very close replica.
It's like comparing a Chevy Suburban and a Cadillac Escalade. On the outside they are virtually identical (I do mean virtually). However on the inside, the caddy has a much nicer interior. With a couple quick swaps of emblems and minor things on the outside, and a complete interior, you won't be able to tell the difference. It will still be a Chevy, but it will impress most people.
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fuzzywolly
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Post by fuzzywolly on Aug 3, 2010 8:58:17 GMT -5
Lolwut, its pretty simple.
If every piece internally is replaced to an upgrade part such as from laylax, on both a clone rifle and a maruzen, they will shoot the SAME!
The reason: Every part has been upgraded, leaving neither rifle with a stock part. So in the end, it just comes down to whether you can deal with the less durable stock, or dish out the cash for the more durable maruzen.
Stop looking at brand names, and read the posts to their full length. You would then realize that no one is comparing a stock UTG to a fully upgraded maruzen. Thats just stupid.
Fuzzy
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Post by Thundernuts Cockpunch on Aug 3, 2010 19:46:30 GMT -5
Since when did I say stock clone? The tolerances are still tighter in the receiver of a Maruzen I'd imagine. I've NEVER shot a clone, or seen a clone shoot anywhere near as good as Embeds M24, or Livonia's L96.
I don't look at brand names... I own an old G&G and 2 clones...
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fuzzywolly
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Post by fuzzywolly on Aug 3, 2010 20:39:37 GMT -5
The reason you do not see any clone shooting as good, is because a typical clone user is a noob and cannot afford the upgrades. They just see uber fps and immediately purchase the rilfe.
Its almost like a stereotype that sniper rifle clone users are noobs. Yes some blondes are stupid, but that does not mean all of them are.
And the tolerances?? Every internal piece has been replaced in both the maruzen and the UTG clone. They will shoot the same if tweaked exactly the same. There is no doubt about it. Explain these tolerances. I am interested at what will be the problem with the clone when all the internals are upgraded. Last time I checked a sturdy stock such as the maruzen's does not affect the shot.
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