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Post by Psychosis on Mar 10, 2009 13:10:53 GMT -5
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Post by pxranger on Mar 10, 2009 13:30:50 GMT -5
How to throw grenades, secure BBs, things of that nature. Sometimes people need to SEE how it's done. I read the rules and regulations after I got burned for my first couple of posts.
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Post by Zorak on Mar 10, 2009 13:56:09 GMT -5
Honestly, I don't think lack of training is a fundamental issue. Every op I've been to has started with a few basic safety reminders, like the ever popular "mags out in the dead zone, goggles on in the playing area." Anything beyond that will usually get taught on the field, by the refs or other players. Nobody's going to get banned for throwing a fake grenade overhand one time.
I think the sort of player this hypothetical list is aimed at is the player who just won't learn, not the player who hasn't been taught. Some guys don't listen to refs, some guys argue with refs, and some guys promise not to do it again, then go back to full jackass mode as soon as they think nobody's looking. Those players need to be culled from the herd.
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Post by redknight on Mar 10, 2009 14:38:18 GMT -5
.I think the sort of player this hypothetical list is aimed at is the player who just won't learn, not the player who hasn't been taught. Some guys don't listen to refs, some guys argue with refs, and some guys promise not to do it again, then go back to full jackass mode as soon as they think nobody's looking. Those players need to be culled from the herd. Amen!
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Post by pxranger on Mar 10, 2009 15:05:24 GMT -5
Then when the person is caught in the act, by anyone, the game should be stopped. Kind of like the military, when one person screws up, the whole platoon gets punished. Then all of a sudden everyones' attention has been brought upon the player in question. What would he/she say if the Playing field came down upon them after being caught red handed. Fine, they can argue with the ref, but what about the whole field. It really shouldn't be just left up to the refs to decide, when it's affecting how the entire game is flowing. It's not fair to those who are trying to remain honorable. So why should we have to put up with that kind of sh*t. If a ass-whoopin' has to come about, so be it. Then maybe they'll learn how to act right after that. What happened when we were young and caught stealing , or skipped school, we got punished. BUT, we had to get caught first. I'm sure it's pretty much easy for a veteran ref(and veteran players) to tell if another player can or can't register that they're taking hits. Just simply removing them when they start to argue, and wine and cry, might work too. I realize it would be hard to stop a heated game. Just food for thought.
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Post by Zorak on Mar 10, 2009 15:37:02 GMT -5
I think your points about how to deal with misbehaving players are well taken, and certainly well intentioned, but we've drifted the point of this thread pretty far. Let's keep discussion focused on the idea of the ban list - or let it lapse, if there's nothing more to be said.
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Post by redknight on Mar 10, 2009 16:04:45 GMT -5
This off-topic-drifting actually gave me an idea! I would actually like to propose a ban list for teams who have offending members on them. This would coincide with rangers point about peer pressure. I think that if your whole team has to suffer for your actions, they might help keep their people in line.
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Post by pxranger on Mar 10, 2009 17:36:46 GMT -5
I think that if your whole team has to suffer for your actions, they might help keep their people in line. What about this? Put a three-strike system( like mentioned before), in with the whole team being punished. Say a person gets caught disregarding the rules blatantly in any manner, give the whole team a strike towards not coming back to that particular field of play for a period of time, or permanently. Three strikes... your out, have a nice day, go home. It does sound like a good way for teams(sides) to police their own players, thus giving the refs a better chance to concentrate on the game at hand.
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Post by redknight on Mar 10, 2009 21:57:01 GMT -5
I don't know about or even want to discuss penalties, but I think a team should be held accountable for their members actions or else what does the team represent? I think the team represents the group and the group represents eachother.
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Post by Koko on Mar 11, 2009 0:25:28 GMT -5
Too much team bias could be brought into it then. For example, I'm not sure I know a single Hellfish or SFOD member that wouldn't be shadowing certain teams at their games. Don't get me wrong, I try to not be biased just as I'm sure everyone else does. It just gets a little hazy when you know who you've had problems with before and who you should be paying better attention to. Thats another reason I'm against the list: people that throw games know who to watch at their field. To me, a new field is a new life as long as you don't have an ominous reputation for yourself.
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Post by pxranger on Mar 11, 2009 7:17:46 GMT -5
Then it comes back to those teams policing their own players so as not to get a bad reputation at battlefields. Attitude reflects leadership. In skateboarding, when you got a shitload of people standing on the obstacle that you want to hit. They all see you wanting to hit it, but they just stand there. Whether it's little kids, bikers, fruit booters, or other skaters, you got to go tell them to move. Or just plow into em' and face the consequences. Point being, even at skateparks, skaters have to police their own kind. It's not fun finding out a sweet spot, or park has been shut down due to no one acting responsibly. I don't think there would be as much team bias if everyone KNEW the Team Leaders were on top of what's going on within their ranks. Again, attitude reflects leadership. I did forget to mention the super aggressive people who just mow down everyone in their path. Kids, other skaters, hell I've seen elderly people get taken out. All because some guy gets off on being an asshole. "Wanna see something funny? Watch this!" Then BAM, then all of a sudden we're running from the cops and small possies.
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Post by Psychosis on Mar 11, 2009 9:36:39 GMT -5
Dude, just make it out to a game first and see how things are run.
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Post by pxranger on Mar 11, 2009 9:55:53 GMT -5
The reason I made that statement was because some of problems you guys are encountering are very similar to the ones I have experienced in many years of skating. If this is how games are run, then I shouldn't expect any thing different. One game, or twenty doesn't seem to be relevant in the matter of dangerous people on the field. They have to be dealt with.
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Post by Knief on Mar 11, 2009 17:51:53 GMT -5
I think psychosis's point is that we don't have as many problems as this thread has made it seem like. For some reason, we have 7 pages worth of talking about banning people from all MiA games, when in actuality, there's probably only been one person in history whose reputation is so bad that no event host will allow him to attend. And that's not because he played unsafely (though there were some stories about using a real shotgun with just the primers and airsoft bbs or something, I never saw it or got the specifics). He's not allowed on most fields because he defrauded the community.
So really, it's not like we have a big problem with people playing in an unsafe manner. Everybody sees that one kid a game lift his fogged up goggles in a hot zone, so you yell at him to put it back down, and usually he does. And if he doesn't, and he's at my game, he gets the boot for the day. But even that has only happened once, years ago. I've called out people cheating, and I've asked people leave an individual game (not the event, just a game within the event) for repeated and excessive overkill or intentionally unloading on a couple of refs. But really, none of that warrants being banned from every major field in the state forever, for a year, or even a season. In fact, short of assaulting another player, constantly removing his goggles, or bringing a real weapon into the mix, I can't think of much else that would really warrant that kind of punishment. And I've never seen anything go down on the field even close to that level.
I feel like people are pretty quick to jump to the "ban" punishment these days, and that's probably because that's what they see here on the forums. But really, we don't permanently ban as many people as it seems like. And even then, you have to fuck up repeatedly and in a major way to get that. And really, that's the only way we can punish people in an online forum, since we can't really control anything else in life. Our realm is content and viewership, and that's really it. Since we can't limit what people can see as punishment, our only other option is to limit their ability to see anything at all.
At an airsoft game, though, you have all kinds of options that don't include permanently barring people from events. You can sit people for games, you can throw people out of events, you can make them play the hostage or VIP in every game you run. Hell, you could even get creative and limit their ammo or guns available for them to use (if somebody has a problem with overkilling, tell them they can only play with their pistol and see if they overkill anybody else for the rest of the day). Event hosts don't need to jump to a perament ban from all MiA games immediately, and I'm a little put off to see so many people think that it's really so viable of an option in so many cases.
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Post by Nexus on Mar 11, 2009 20:13:48 GMT -5
Well said Knief. Well said. +1
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