Joint Training Op with ZSAT

[redknight]

Here is the long and short of it, we are going to organize a joint training op with Mopedman, his team and anyone he wishes to bring along. We will be teaching movement, communication and small group related tactics. At this point, just for sake of simplicity for atleast this first time around, it will be invite only, but please feel free to post here if interested so we know who to invite in the future. Once we get things going smoothly we will open this to all intersted parties. I am going to take group input on this first, then decide where we will hold the training. No offense, but since I will be one of the trainers and I know what we need, I (and Moped) will have the final say on where it will be held. At this time, I intend to give a few nights of class room style instruction with visual aids and 'rock drills' followed with hands-on, by-the-numbers practice.

Uniform/Equipment: Uniform for this event will be relaxed to casual attire, but I recomend clothing that will allow for movement similar to what we do in the field, this means Spyder is not allowed to wear a kilt additionally, eye protection, in compliance with Mia/Semia rules should be brought by the participants to be worn during excercises. Participants only need to bring one airsoftgun, at most, but no more than one longgun and pistol per person would be useful.

Fee: The event will be free, if however someone wants to assist by bringing food or refreshments, or money to buy food for everyone, thats fine, but not essential. Like most events, there will be a break for a meal, but I or another instructor will probably continue teaching for those hardy souls that pass on the meal for more training

Date: At this time, I am looking at a Friday evening for the first meeting, with the following meeting either the next night on a Saturday or a Friday in the next week after.

[kustom]

I'm not trying to start anything here, but what credentials do you have that would certify you for training?

Training the wrong way is worse than not training at all.

[tweek]

I would be interested in future events of this sort. I'm trying to break more into Milsim and the like. But as kustom stated I know nothing about your experience and what certifies you to train. Be it military experience or just what you learned on the internet.

[Phantom G3]

Our team would like to come out and learn more things, we need it (team communication).

[Shadow (314)]

I would love to attend. I would need more information when and where it would be held though.

[Tex]

It may be wise to get yourself a little more known amongst the members of MiA. I read some of your other posts and it seems like you are a military vet, which could provide some decent training to some of these kids, but you're not going to have much of a showing as of right now.

And, unfortunately, I would suggest that Mopedman not be one of the individuals who runs it. He was the leader of a team "I Am Stupid" and they just have a continuously poor reputation, even with their name change. He personally may not, but reputation by association happens much more often than you could imagine.

This is a good idea, but may be a bit soon. And especially with how spread out airsofters are, this would like have to be a one day ordeal, not a multiple days in a classroom setting like you have stated. A good idea in theory, just don't think it will succeed in reality.

[Kilo Oscar Tango]

I'll try anything twice. Sounds like a good seminar.

If you haven't already you may want to put together a curriculum of exactly what you will be covering, break up techniques and certain aspects into certain days. That way you can post up "Jan 30th: Silent Communication", and people can gauge their own interest, instead of just going to an instructional session.

Organization will save you countless headaches.

[redknight]

Dear skeptics and critics, First of all, if you didn't notice, or didn't care to read that far, this is by invite only, since you made it plain and clear that you don't know me, don't worry about it becasue you won't be attending. Secondly looking just at your age, I can see that I was in uniform back when one of you was in elementary school. If you are looking for someone to display certificates, I would suggest you go somewhere else and pay for your training. I have two honorable discharges, a book full of certificates and a shadow box full of pretty ribbons. I have 8 years LEO experience as well as a host of training from MCOLES and other inter-agency courses, and I used to play for a charity paintball team in the mid-90s in central Texas.
I am offering the benefit of the experiences of both myself and my associates, all of whom are decorated veterans of the U.S. military (mainly Army, and Navy) as well as all being certified LEOs with each haviing between 4 and 10 years LEO experience. Further, this is a Joint training Op, so my team will not be the only one giving instruction. I seriously doubt that anyone on here ever showed you their DD214, or their service record or a diploma, which means it is a waste of time to post my credentials anyway since you would never know if they were genuine. If you are going to be so rude as to ask such a question, you may also be so arrogant that any training would also fall on deaf ears, since you probably wouldn't listen to us any way. In any case, if you noticed, this is by invite only. Don't worry, with your attitude, I am certain, that unless you are a very dear friend of Moped, you won't be receiving an invite from anyone here.
Kustom, I take no offense at your remarks, but please don't begin with statements like "I dont want to start anything but..." that just starts things....
Big Texas, It would be wiser of you, if you stayed to your own buisness. I am not here to show you my credentials, I don't need to impress you, and I don't care if you care or not. Personally, my paycheck atests to my credentials, and I don't need to establish a reputation with children or young men like yourself. I think you spoke a bit prematurely and should hold your council for someone who wants it. I don't appreciate the know-it-all attitude of children nor do I appreciate the slurs, slander and liebel that you just posted about Mopedman and his team. He and his team have a solid reputaion with the people who matter in this instance. You sir, are an unknown to me and your voice matters little as you have no credibility with us. I will be notifying Mopedman of your remarks.

Here is todays lesson : don't look a gift horse in the mouth!
free training is free, so don't gripe about getting your money's worth!!!!


To respond to D4mnit's post, you are right on point with the idea of a specified and scripted curriculum , but we will be giving a rudimentary training session covering for this first time around, covering all the basic elements and then integrating all of it. Since this is going to be the very first joint endeavor of our teams, it will no doubt lead to some differences in training/doctrine ideas/beliefs, hence why we are limiting the operation to invite only for this first time.

Once we figure out where and when to host, we will worry about the schedule of courses and excercises using the resources we have on hand. Some considerations will be the size of the area we have available for practical excercises, and the weather for instance.

In anycase, you are right, and rest assured we will have a course curriculum posted once we are ready to run this training seminar. I will keep you and everyone else informed with updates as things develop and progress.

As you seem to be one who could appreciate it, I was trained and certified through TAITC (total arm instructor training course) and SGITC (small group instructor training course) both from my time in the MI ANG, after I left active duty. I will be utilizing the training format which I learned during my time in the 'guard'. You sound like the sort that would be familiar with this...

[snafu]

Its really cool that you want to do something to teach the michigan airsoft community! But I have to say you kinda come off cross. All Tex and kustom did was try to give you a little advice. Kustom is right nobody knows who you are..
I still would like to know more about what you guys are tying to get together though. You just might not want to act all hard when you have like 12 posts.

[ξ Blazin’ Ace ξ]

The way you are talking to Tex it seems like you can't take criticism.

So why would anyone want to take lessons by someone who doesn't take criticism? Do you think we will pat you on the back and say you did everything perfectly? No, we will try to help you to make it better, not just read it and blow by it.

[tweek]

I must agree. Redknight, for your years of service I would like thank you, you have my utmost gratitude for protecting my freedom. But even with all the respect you have earned, you have no reputation here. And remember that you asked people who were interested to post so you would know who to invite in the future. So please forgive us for inquiring about a man we don't know, and thank you for telling us more about yourself. The simple answer would have been: "my years of military background more than qualify me to train".
just one more thing, why post information about an exclusive event in which you are inviting only people you know?


EDIT: there is no sarcasm intended in my post.

[Koenig]

Jan 30, 2009 20:30:32 GMT -5 tweek said:

just one more thing, why post information about an exclusive event in which you are inviting only people you know?

Same question.

[redknight]

Gentlemen, First of all I asked who was interested, not for criticism, but more importantly here, I was replying to the rude post by Tex slurring Mopedman and the attempt to impune my credentials. I don't post my resume' because I feel that its not relevant, if you meet me and play with or against me, you will know enough about me to answer your questions. If you come to the free training and find that I'm full of crap, feel free to let me know and I will happily give you all of the money that you didn't pay right back.

I don't have a lot of posts because I would rather say only a few things which have meaning, than many things which have none. To be fair, some folks on here have many more years of experience than I do in terms of Military training, they are the ones whom I am hoping to open a dialogue with, not the kids that want to know if I am on the same low level of the food chain as them....

Snafu....the idea that making posts makes you feel "all hard" makes me cry for you...seriously dude...I have nothing else to say I am certain thats not what you actually meant to say lets just squash this OK? someone famous once said "plenty of fools talk a lot and say little of worth"

Kustoms, As I said, I didn't take offense at your questions, but Tex was rude and slanderous beyond what I will tolerate, though he did not speak ill of me, he slurred Sam, the man that is generously helping me to assemble this free training seminar.

My teammates and I can of course always benefit from further education, just the same as anyone else, but in this case we are hoping to pass on some knowledge in the interest of goodsportsmanship and being "good neighbors" to our fellow players on other teams.
;D seriously, we don't have any ego involved here, we are not worried about winning or losing, if we were worried about it, we certainly wouldn't offer to share our training and tactics

Tex's profile motto is"If I don't have anything nice to say....."
I believe the other half is "don't say anything at all" blasting away at Sam as he did is simply inappropriate. Our team is trying to do something nice for others to help them organize, and to foster good relations between all players. Why does he have to slurr Moped?

OK, now seriously guys, lets stop throwing the 'verbal-poo' and get back to the topic, seriously snafu, I am only kidding with you man, but you left yourself open for jokes after the pecker-checker remark... and Tex, I have no beef with you, but I can't stand back while someone tries to impeach my associates character. If you have issues with someone like Moped or me, please PM me about it, rather than calling him out on an open forum like this, I had no choice but to fire right back at you in his defense. Lets start fresh here and keep such discussions about people private. I will do the same in return OK? ;D

Tweek, I posted the topic so I could get a feel for how many people would be interested and to make it easier for both of our teams to access the topic to engage in the discussion. Perhaps you are right and I should have posted it else where. Originally I intended to invite folks who have experience who would serve as trainers, and a few people such as yourself and others from other teams so that you would be able to enjoy a beneficial, fun training experience and at the same time, you would be able to carry back word of the seminar to your own team. As it is, my team, The Zombie Squad, is here mainly to play for fun, but at the same time we represent a relatively large non-profit organization based in PA. My goal is to spread their name around while enjoying airsoft and thus raise awareness of their cause at the same time. None the less, I concede that you make many valid points. As for my service time, its eight years that I can't get back, so I will use the experience in the most positive way I can to benefit the most people that I can. I think that if I can teach folks tactics and young men and boys can enjoy playing wargames, then the training is being used better than if it were used to fight real wars. And for what its worth, you need never thank this soldier for having done his part, I was honored to have served with the fine men and women that I met and served with in the Army.

[Kilo Oscar Tango]

Whether Redknight knows what he's talking about we have to go and see for ourselves. There's no point in shooting down a possible training event before even checking it out. I think newer players should look into classes like this, that would at least add to their playbook, then we may see more advanced maneuvers than just rushing.

[Lid]

^^

I've gotta agree. I don't care how many years you have in airsoft or your profession, the day you stop training and learning new tactics is the day you become complacent and get killed.

Military and LE are always changing tactics. Unfortunately its because someone has paid the ultimate sacrifice.

We had a training seminar put on by LAPD SWAT and believe it or not this SWAT team left the seminar because they thought they knew it all and the training was remidial to them. Crazy huh.

Gotta give the guy a chance. If he's willing to use his free time to do this free of charge what can it hurt. You don't like what he has to say leave.