Whats wrong with this place? Jul 22, 2008 12:15:41 GMT -5
Post by Munin on Jul 22, 2008 12:15:41 GMT -5
Munin, not cool man. I don't find this funny at all. Make sure if your going to post some BS like this, you put up all the facts.
OK, kdogg, let's look at the facts, shall we?
Almost everyone who reads this the way you posted it would assume you placed an order and we NEVER sent you anything to begin with. You left out the part where we shipped your order which btw was a cheap china made ECHO 1 gear set and that you in fact did receive it as ordered. Day or two later you contacted me saying a tooth had broken off or was broken off one of the spur gear.
Let's back up a step. Let's start by clarifying that what I actually ordered was a single CA spur gear, which your website listed as available and in-stock. I then got a notice from you that that item was not available (Empire Airsoft had stopped selling individual CA gears), and that as a replacement you would offer an ECHO1 gearset at no additional charge. At this point, I was like, "OK, that's cool. No worries." So when you accuse me of ordering a "cheap china made" gearset, you too are distorting the facts.
Now as normal with almost EVERY airsoft dealer in the word, internal parts sales are all FINAL. Why? Because dealers can't verify if the part was broken out of the package or broken when the customer tried to upgrade or repair the gun.
Incorrect. Most parts sales are unwarrantied. This is a far cry from "final." The defect in the gear was CLEARLY a casting defect. I include a picture for reference:
The gear had never been installed or used, and was new out of the bag. I received a defective product. There's a difference between, "Hey, I used this part and it broke," and "Hey, the stuff you sold me was broken before I got it."
As for the return policy, if such sales were were final, perhaps you could explain this message I got from you, dated August 28, 2007?
"Please dont use the other gears. Echo 1 will most likely request I send them back for examination in order to refund or replace me."
Fair enough, you tried to replace it, as you explain here:
Even though all parts sales are final, I tried to do you a FAVOR. I said I would see if ECHO 1 would replace it but I couldn't say for sure.Took them what two months to send me a new gear then it was the WRONG gear when it got here. Again, no warranty on parts at almost all airsoft dealers but again, I said let me try to get the right one. Another few weeks and I'm told by ECHO 1, sorry we have no gear sets right now.
At some level, this is not my problem. I have paid for merchandise. I have received defective merchandise and returned it to you at my own expense. So now Empire Airsoft has both my merchandise and my money, and I have bupkus.
So anyway again trying do you a favor, I offer to send you one out of my own personal parts bin of parts bin as a favor and I told you it had NOTHING to do with Empire Airsoft but just me trying to do you a favor. Which if I remember, I sent you one. Later I'm told no gear came so I said again as a favor, I would check my parts and send you another one. That was the same time I stopped using the MIA forum for a few months so it slipped my mind.
Stop. You are not "trying to do me a favor." You are trying to avoid the responsibility of actually delivering the merchandise your shop advertized. I paid money. I got nothing.
As for sending me a replacement, shall we go over that comedy of errors? Yes, you were off MiA for a while, and that's fine. But when you finally did come back, I got nothing but a shifting story of "I sent the gear" to "Young sent the gear," to "I'll send you the gear right away." I received assurances from you, both via PM and when I called you in person that it would be taken care of promtly. When I finally did receive the gear, it was postmarked two full months after the date when you assured me you had already sent it. That means you were lying, because postmarking happens when something is received by the post office. No "lost in the mail" excuses, just you lying to a customer.
And when I finally did receive the replacement? I seriously, honestly thought you were fucking with me, because you sent me back the IDENTICAL defective gear. That's right, the gear I had returned to you because it was missing half a tooth. So after months of lies and evasion and excuses, I still do not have the merchandise I ordered.
Shall we list the litany of assurances?
Oct 18, 2007: "I'll get these out asap. Sorry for the delay. Having some issues with ECHO 1 and replacement parts. They never have anything."
Nov 13, 2007: "Let me check into this, I thought yong sent you some already. I'd not heard anything so I thought you had long gotten them."
Dec 8th, 2007: "Sorry it's taken me so long to get back with you. My boss has been in Vegas at his other house and I had to wait for him to return to figure out whats going on.
I guess I'm sending you some more gears because he swears up and down they went back out in the SAME box you sent them to us in, the same way you sent them to us, so there wouldn't be a tracking number."
That one is particularly good, because the box I sent it in was one of those little USPS sticky-boxes that you basically have to destroy to open. This was when I started to suspect I was getting the run-around.
Dec 15th, 2007: "Ok I got some of the gears out of my person stock. All new...
Jan 24th, 2008: "I'll ask Yong about this yet again. He was given the package on the 7th when we re-opened from the hoilday vacation we took.
The tracking number was: 9101 8052 1368 3141 3123 12"
This one I particularly like because of the clearly bogus tracking number. That sequence is neither USPS, UPS, FedEx, DHL, or any other carrier. It showns every appearance of being a made-up number concocted out of whole cloth. Ergo, a lie. And when I called you on it, I get this:
Jan 29th, 2008: "I will have a tracking number for you when my girlfriend returns."
Which I took as pretty much an admission that you had lied in the previous message and STILL hadn't sent the merchandise (which keep in mind, has been paid for since August of last year).
Jan 30th, 2008: "So basically, I had to pay out of my own pocket get these parts to you and pay the shipping on this to you so I don't want any shit from you hehe I have nothing else to say =P
ECHO 1 NEVER sent me the right damn parts so I took some new gears out of my own spar parts kits, then my boss wouldn't ship another set because he insists he sent them once already which I'm not doubting him but you said you never got them so whatever, no big deal.
Anyway he wouldn't pay to re-ship them so I said fuck it and told him I would do it myself.
Your welcome, sorry its taken so long."
This is where the martyrdom complex really starts. Nevermind that Empire Airsoft has received my money and I still have nothing to show for it. It's all about how you're doing me this HUGE favor. Listen, man, when the waitress at Chili's brings you the food you actually ordered, she's not doing you a huge favor. She's doing her fucking job.
Time goes by. As previously mentioned, I FINALLY receive a replacement gear - the identical gear I had returned to you, still with the missing half-tooth casting defect. I half thought you were trying to be funny, at which point I complained and got this gem:
Feb 27th, 2008: "I use the MIA forums maybe twice a month. I don't have time to ship packages, build guns, talk to customers AND sit on forums."
OK, but why do I have a response from you pretty much every few weeks? Where is this "six month break" from the forums you took? We had what I would consider relatively regular timely contact throughout this time. I understand that you're busy, and NOWHERE did I demand instantaneous response from you. And for the record, I actually did call teh store at this junctutre (again) and talked to you personally (again) and was told that you'd respolve the issue immediately (again). My favorite was how the note ended with this:
"You owe me a beer some day."
No. You owe me the item that I paid for. Nothing more, nothing less.
And finally, June 24th, 2008: "I completely FORGOT all about this. I have only been here like two or three times in the past few months.
Should be around more regular now though but yeah, gimme your addy and I'll mail you one in the morning. I gotta mail some shit anyway."
And I have again seen NOTHING since. Nothing.
See if I had stuck to the policy we and almost every other dealer has, this wouldn't be an issue. This is what I get for trying to do someone a favor.
No. Read your own policy more carefully. There's a difference between "no warranty" and "failure to deliver goods as contracted." You are NOT doing me a favor. You are fulfilling (or rather failing to fulfill) a contractual obligation between buyer and seller.
I'm sick of seeing you lash out at buyers who've had similar experiences, both with you personally and with Empire Airsoft. You have a proven track record of outright lying to people doing business with you. I understand that there are a ton of ECHO1 kiddies out there who will kiss your ass and tell you you're the greatest thing since sliced bread, but I am not one of them. My experience with Empire Airsoft (and with you) has been dissatisfactory.
I held my tongue for a long time because I was trying to give you ample opportunity to fix the problem. You have utterly and repeatedly failed to do so. I didn't make a fuss because honestly, it was a single fucking spur gear and who the hell cares? But this is not about a trivial item, it's about your pattern of deception, dissemblance, and poor customer service.
At any point, you could have made a satisfied customer out of me by simply doing what you SAID you were going to do. And I probably would have been like, "that kdogg, he was really helpful when I ordered through Empire." But instead you've been your own worst PR.