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Post by kustom on May 20, 2008 22:00:21 GMT -5
Just seeing what everyone's take on this is... Doing a MILSIM game of us forces (Army, Marines, Contractors) VS. a larger force of insurgents.
1. The insurgents would dress the part. This includes mock burkhas (or whatever the body-covering robe is) provided by the event organizers (still allowing for the use of tactical rigs underneath), headwraps, rags on guns, etc.
2. US forces would be in strategically vulnerable positions oftentimes, including guarding a set postition from attacks on all sides and clearing enemy ambush points.
3. Mag limits... Currently set at 1 highcap and as many midcaps as players want... no field reloading.
4. The game as a set of linked scenarios, each 30-90 mins, where the outcome helps the winning side in dramatic ways, like insurgents smuggling amphetemines and such to a secret cache past US forces, and if successfull, they get an extra "Field Respawn" to simulate a drug-fueled fighter surviving greivious injuries to fight on
5. Actual squads.... not just a bunch of people running around randomly.
This game would be played on an established field, and cost about the same as an OP nowadays. If there's enough interest, it may become a 2 day event with possible night fighting.
Any thoughts?
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Post by Munin on May 20, 2008 22:26:55 GMT -5
kustom, you're headed in the right direction, but try to think bigger. What kinds of scenarios do you want your game to have? How do you envision the firefights that will result from these scenarios? What sort of non-combat tactical options do you want to incorporate? How do you plan to incorporate them? If you're going to have special rules, how do you plan to enforce them?
For instance - Actual squads. OK, but what does that buy you? How will you achieve it? How do you enforce it? What does it mean on the field?
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Post by Zorak on May 20, 2008 22:29:07 GMT -5
Hicaps are the antithesis of milsim. Heck, I honestly think that more than maybe 7 midcaps is way too much ammo.
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Post by kustom on May 20, 2008 22:50:44 GMT -5
I've got a whole list of non-combat and combat advantages, I just wanted to tweak them before laying them out. The missions work into a loose flowchart with success or failure for either team leading down a mission path.
The ammo thing... I wanted to keep a lot of n00bs out of this event, but still allow newer players who picked up a gun with a highcap to still play, I know it's a paradox, but I didn't want to cut down on TOO many player options.
As far as set squads, I'm not really sure, other than giving each squad a sub-task to perform on the field, or doing group tasks that takes the whole unit to complete, like demoing a structure, marksmen teams doing recon work and overwatch, a squad of ambushers that has to strike the enemy before the rest of the team comes into play, etc. It would be hard to enforce, but if it was a workable model, I think it would be something that would bring a lot of respect and team-building for the squad members. I'll have to tink on it more, in the meantime, feel free to slap down more suggestions.
Thanks guys.
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Post by triggs on May 20, 2008 23:07:06 GMT -5
If I may toss my opinion/ideas into this: 1. I personally like the idea, but getting/buying a set of clothes could be a bit of a pain. 2. Again since this is still a rough idea I can't comment, we'd have to see a list of the scenarios to formulate an opinion on this one. 3. If they have just bought the gun, limit them to one hi-cap or as many mid/low caps as they want, but not both. 300-470 rounds is more than enough, 300-470 + 100-150 x whatever is far too much ammo for one person to carry in my opinion. I do like the idea of no field re-loading though. 4. That's more of a scenario, and for sure it sounds like a good idea, though I can easily see scenarios going a lot longer, just be sure to have them flow together with no breaks (bullhorn anyone). 5. Excellent idea, even our rec games have been more fun with squad work. Now in my opinion: Field rules enforcement, and I realize this will sound harsh, failing to obey the field rules (when viewed by a field moderator) will mean immediate ejection from the game or possibly the entire day (I'm for giving a second chance after a good timeout). Failing to work as a squad means running with no ammo for a period of time. You will be forced to work with your squad, rely on your squad to protect you, this also leaves it open if you acted like a complete retard you can become the bait
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Post by Talisman on May 21, 2008 6:36:09 GMT -5
Why not eliminate hicaps fully ( I agree with zorak), but allow players to carry BB's in a military surplus ammo can? Those things are kinda a bitch to haul around the field, but it allows your players to reload in-field (thus allowing some more intense firefights), and forces people to act as a squad (if you had 1 person running ammo, the rest would tend to stay close most of the time.)
Just a couple of ideas on those topics =)
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Post by Thor on May 21, 2008 6:45:46 GMT -5
Honestly, I would say let's try a game with real cap load outs, but you can bring as many loaded mags with you as you can fit. This means you can have a backpack full of mags ready to go if you want. Realistic loadouts in the sandbox are usually (don't quote me on this) 6-12 mags. That's between 360-720 rounds. I wish regular AEG mags were weighted to weigh as much as real steel mags (like Systema ones are) because that would be 6-12 pounds added to your loadout. Doesn't seem like much, but try wearing it. ;D
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Post by operatordoc01 on May 21, 2008 7:33:00 GMT -5
Kustom, Some of the stuff you are mentioning here are things that I saw done at the WI Op this past weekend, and they worked flawlessly. I will send you a pm to let you look over what was sent to me from the Op organizers for that event.
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Post by Chaseman on May 21, 2008 8:12:04 GMT -5
Doc, I would like a PM of that as well please? If you don't mind. Kustom: I like where your going. Another idea is that the squads run on their own radio freq. And each squad gets an RCO (Radio Communications Officer) that is in contact with HQ receiving orders and calling in enemy positions working with the squad leader. The scenarios are keep secret form everyone till in the field and the squads receive their orders from HQ. So they are basically out on patrol till they get their orders. This way if squads split up they can regroup( own squad freq., and they won't know what to do to win, if they don't receive and follow there squad orders from HQ and their squad leader.
In war the regular troops have no idea whats going on till they are briefed. They just follow orders. They don't make up their own missions.
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Post by kustom on May 21, 2008 9:23:18 GMT -5
I like the ideas so far. Carl, my M14 mags, all 4 of them, add about 6 pounds to my vest, so I hear ya! Also, maybe doing the ammo can idea, with one squad member being the "ammo bitch", an unenviable job, but the most popular man during a firefight. I was also thinking of limited medic skills, where a squad medic can only heal his guys. I also like the radio operator idea, we'd have to see how ell that'll work on different freqs. Trigger, wed provide the burkas for tha insurgants, and if you have a shemagh or a scarf, you could use it as a headwrap, but we're trying to stick away from making people buy too much to go to an OP.
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Post by Munin on May 21, 2008 9:24:55 GMT -5
Doc, if you think it's worth it, please post the stuff from the Wisconsin op to this thread (or one of the other Event Planning threads). It might spur lots of good ideas and/or discussion.
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Post by DevilDog on May 21, 2008 10:10:12 GMT -5
As Tali and Zorak said, get rid of the hicaps altogether. Basic combat load is around 6 or 7 mags. Good idea about the ammo can Tali! You could always stage the ammo at a resupply point as well.
As for planning, having one objective lead into another (based on outcome) is a way to keep the flow of the game. It requires a bit more planning, but will be well worth it in the end.
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Clampitt
New Member
When's the last time you lifted a 17000 lb gun?
Posts: 576
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Post by Clampitt on May 21, 2008 13:20:35 GMT -5
I don't know how you guys would feel about this but here are my thoughts regarding the ammo can.
Have one or two squad members be allowed to carry a backpack with a bag of bb's, speedloaders, and/or loaded mags. To simulate the weight of this, add weights to the bottom of the bag. Having a 20 pound bag sounds like a decent for being able to reload in the field. And as DevilDog said, you would see a lot of "let's leave the bag here so we have a place to re-arm and re-group if the assault fails." Because if you plan on running, 20 pounds will slow you down a little.
A different thing I was thinking about though, was in regards to "team commanders" and squad operations
With what Kustom was saying about having a flow chart of missions, obviously one head guy would need to drop that info down the line. My thought was having a each team commander knowing a few "key areas" for his team, which could be simple things like an intersection, a hill or even a supply route which could each have their own benefits. So team commanders, could set up squads in these areas, then later on be given the actual missions and possibly even an enemy key point to try and take.
The key to this is it makes the commander HAVE to employ his squads for security, patrols, and taking objectives. I think you guys can see where I'm going with this, and I have run out of time for right now.
Take the idea and run with it guys.
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Post by Tex on May 21, 2008 13:44:03 GMT -5
Sounds almost exactly like what we've got written down for Black Eagle. I like it.
Before the Mil Sim discussion thread got cluttered with age debates, it pretty much was discussing all of this. I think radio communication, and having the right individuals playing is the key to this success. If just a small handful decide they are bored of it and want trigger time, it has potential to ruin the whole thing. But if it was a select few then it could work quite well. It will take a lot of planning and communication, but would be well worth it. So if you choose to do so, please put in at least 3 months of solid planning, none of these 2 weeks before the event lets get a rough idea of what might happen, that we've been seeing in Michigan lately.
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Post by Psychosis on May 21, 2008 13:50:09 GMT -5
Just my opinion, but if we are going to simulate the Afghanistan conflict, we should do it on similar terrain, open and hilly/mountainous.
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