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Post by theactionman on May 29, 2008 16:51:29 GMT -5
Also, even with an 18+ crowd, it doesn't mean somebody might not stumble over something (accidents and the like happen, it's not an age issue). Like Tex...
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Post by Myers on May 30, 2008 15:34:31 GMT -5
I'm only sixteen, and I have no problem missing out on the 18+ (or even 21+) events. I don't see a problem with adults wanting to play with ONLY adults. To all the other minors on this board, would you really want a 45 year old to attend your "road trip," or something along those lines? If your underage and the scenario is 18+, just wait it out. Everyone turns 18 some day, it's not like it's never going to happen.
Regarding the private invite to minors; this is probably the best way to go. Probably one of the major problems that minors have, is to take responsibility for their own actions. If something happens, or they do something wrong, they immediately try to find someone else to blame. Just play responsibly and follow all rules, and I don't see a problem. There are minors out there that are more responsible and mature than some 18+ers.
Minors should also know that all adults should, and WILL have seniority over them. When I am attending an event, and someone tells me to do something appropriate, I do it, even if I don't agree. Upon receiving an erratic order from an adult, a minor shouldn't deal with himself and consult an event planner, or another adult, who can talk with that person.
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Post by Overkill on Jun 4, 2008 18:55:21 GMT -5
Ahhh, this argument.
Im only 16, but i understand what you mean perfectly. Sometimes im embarassed to bring my friends to events just because of the way they act. Its not freaking call of duty 4. As for maturity? Anyone can scrounge up maturity, Maturity = manners, mind-set, lknowing when to et things go, patience, know when to be quiet, realize the bigger picture (hey its AIRSOFT), and know when to pop the chill pill.
But.... maybe thats just me. I have great respect for the military so i take combat seriously, both as a challenge and as a kind of... i don't really know... tribute? Maybe thats still not the right word. Either way, i don't see a logical reason to act stupid and mess up such a great oppourtunity to mingle with great people and have some really great times.
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Post by bigc on Jun 4, 2008 21:54:27 GMT -5
I am reopening this thread on one condition: discuss only things relevant to event planning, this is not the funny thread or the bs thread. Stay on topic.
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Post by tylr77 on Jul 6, 2008 22:21:39 GMT -5
Well I don't really know all about the age limit and hosting rules and other things like that. But I'm 14 and I think it would be a blast to do a Military Simulation where I live. I've been watching videos on Youtube and it looks awesome.
I just wish I could find an event though to start off and check one of them out. I always play with my friends and their not really interested in strategy. They just run 'n' gun. I mean it doesn't have to be super tactical but most of the time my teamates don't know the meaning of stealth.I want to work as a team with other people who have an actual idea of what their doing in the game and use plans.
But I think if a kid can be responsible enough it doesnt matter the age limit. Not all kids suck at listening and can't follow rules. Why ruin it for the kids who can just because of a few bad ones here and there?
And about the whole adults relaxing drinking bears and playing cards well why don't 'we' as in 17 below just have a seperate spot to do the same. (not drink) Why not let a kid earn his worthyness?
I also think Mike Myers is right. It would be nice if they could set up Milsim's for teens 14-17 or so that way you'd be playing with people around your age and not someone who could be your dad. But there could also be some older moderators to supervize the event like 2 or 3 for each team. And I think overkills right too it would be something you wouldn't want to mess up a chance to play a great game with other people. And make good memories. This could be the best way to go. Or maybe I'll just have to stick to ametur backyard battles with friends.
P.S. I know that I can be a good sport and call my hits.
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Post by Tex on Jul 7, 2008 9:33:37 GMT -5
The problem is, there are not enough mature kids in order to organize something like that.
Also, event hosts would consider it a waste of time. So much time and energy is spent putting together a *true* MilSim event. Michigan hasn't had one in years anyways, just enjoy the ones you can go to and deal with the one or two a year you cannot. And for the record, when I was 16 and got my first AEG, I wasn't allowed to attend ANY events, just little backyard brawls. That's just the way it was back then.
I thought I was mature at 16, and I look back and laugh. Though I was mature for my age, I was not "mature". Beating this topic like a dead horse isn't going to get hosts (like me) to change their rules. I already have allowed like 3 individuals under 18 to attend, and won't mind more so long as I believe they will be able to handle the game play.
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Post by Munin on Jul 7, 2008 13:09:49 GMT -5
Actually, I played with Tex back when he was 16. For the record, he was probably more mature then than he is now.
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Post by Canto on Jul 7, 2008 14:20:41 GMT -5
Well, I suppose that could be he has already proved himself. Go-go regression... Tylr77, I honestly would love to have those days back. The days where the guys after an event could kick it by a campfire and get trashed. I had a blast and I know a bunch of other people from MiA did as well (Mirage, Blindshot, Tex, Mosin, Oakey, DeadPrez, Osiris, etc). I suppose it was a "decompression period" after the event that made it all worth while for us... But we cannot anymore, we're (Armory Airsoft) hard pressed to allow any alcoholic substances on the field pre or post event... My personal experience with having stuff like that after an event turned sour after Operation: Flash Fire II... Under age drinking, as far as i am concerned this is a big no no. This is a good way to get a lot of bad press for airsoft and see a lot of players and event organizers in a lot of trouble. Lets not have this happen again. OpDoc Despite the fact this came from this particular source (I will chalk it up to trying to run my business into the ground for the success of his) the damage was done... Not only I was repulsed by this statement, seeing as the person who said it has drank out there many a time, but the complete and utter disregard for past after parties (positive experiences for many) threw me for a loop... Again, but the damage was done. We're still recovering from it... Maybe in 10 years we can act with the same disregard, but for right now, for honor's sake......... I'm glad we can't afford to. So, as of now, the official Armory Airsoft position is that alcoholic beverages are allowed at campsites pre and post event so long as those partaking are of legal age (21 years or older). Deviation from said rules is grounds for expulsion. I really don't like either option... Option A: 18 and up. Lose a huge amount of players. Option B: 14 and up. Piss some of the older players off. Option C: 16 and up. Piss a lot of people off with a middle of the road age range... What do I pick? I mean, where is the line?
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Post by Mles on Jul 7, 2008 15:07:25 GMT -5
“You can only be young once. But you can always be immature.” -Dave Barry First off, I agree with Mike Meyers 100%, just wait it out and don't bitch about it. And I am not writing this to have Hosters CHANGE their rules, simply to explain my stand. Here's my opinion on the topic of AGE limit Discussion. Truly, most young airsofters are idiots. Field Owners and experienced players both see this. The subject that differs is how each group particularly deals with the young players. Field Owners truly only have 2 solid choices: Ban or Allow the attendance of underage individuals. Canto went over this already, but just to touch on it more personally - Pro's and Con's. Banning Pro's- The chance of holding a successful event is much higher. Con's- Revenue. Pissed offed Kids who whine and bitch about the Age limit, and don t understand why they are not allowed. Allowing Pro's- Higher Attendance, much higher revenue. Con's- You have kids running around with box magazines spraying full auto at anything that moves. And simply ignoring hits and overall degrading the sport. So truly, as a player, how do you overcome this problem of the Age Limit? Simple, WAIT.I want to play a true game of Mil-Sim. I love the whole aspect of moving as a squad and all that jazz. But, the only choice is to wait my friends. I found out one thing about life, and that is that life is full of waiting: Waiting for your License, Waiting for that first drink, Waiting, Waiting and more Waiting. But touching on another aspect, something that particularly grinds my gears to no end - The way some older players deal with younger players. Here's a scenario explaining what I am going in to a bit more. Scenario 1- A young player is sitting behind cover not doing anything particularly. He sits there and winds his highcap and returns a bit of fire, but ultimately stays still in his cover. A group of older players passes the newb and starts to flank the enemy. One of the players speaks out and says, "Wow this is why I hate this Field, Noobs are always sitting their doing nothing!" Why do I hate this older players complaint? He's not doing anything to change what that noob is doing. Simply complaining about his inexperience. How can this older player teach this player how to properly play? He can do one of several things. For example he can do this, "Hey, your doing nothing behind that cover! Why don't you roll with me and help me flank the enemy!?". This, to me, seems to only help the sport. We NEED some experienced players stand up and teach the younger players, not criticize and bitch. GK held the Mil-Sim orientation, which seems to be the best example of this so far.
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steeldeath
New Member
An MiA mature young player.
Posts: 32
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Post by steeldeath on Jul 8, 2008 9:55:08 GMT -5
Well, I am a younger Airsofter, but I beleive that I am mature enough to play with other people. Heck- I joined MiA so I could get away from my friends who play (ONLY) surrender-because-my-gun-is-at-your-head. I joined Airsoft thinking it would be realistic MILSIM type games, but no, I ended up in a backyard with a spring pistol. I hope if my age allows for me to come to an OP that you guys will see this.
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Post by Mles on Jul 8, 2008 10:41:21 GMT -5
Well, I am a younger Airsofter, but I beleive that I am mature enough to play with other people. Heck- I joined MiA so I could get away from my friends who play (ONLY) surrender-because-my-gun-is-at-your-head. I joined Airsoft thinking it would be realistic MILSIM type games, but no, I ended up in a backyard with a spring pistol. I hope if my age allows for me to come to an OP that you guys will see this. You most likely can attend an OP, but not a Mil-Sim one. At times, standard OP's can seem like those games you played with your friends in your backyard. But, really, all you really need to be a successful contributing airsofter is to research, research and research. Read this forum, and troll others, it'll help a lot.
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steeldeath
New Member
An MiA mature young player.
Posts: 32
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Post by steeldeath on Jul 8, 2008 11:24:44 GMT -5
I have researched, for hours on end. And by MILSIM I ment something that involves not being completely idiotic.
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Post by Gentner on Jul 8, 2008 13:44:59 GMT -5
Here's what I think should be done concerning the Age Limits. Recreational Games [14 and Up] Recreational and very loosely based MilSim Games. Much like most of the Events that were held this year and last. This allows the younger kids to get involved in Airsoft and see what its like, and to see if its for them. They get to play with those adults who attend and allows everyone to have a decent time and a day of trigger pulling. Scenario Games [16 and Up] Used to get the more semi mature and older players oriented with MilSim and lets them learn what MilSim is about and lets them get a feel for it to see if they like it. It also gives a chance for them to get noticed by the Older Gents on the forums. These games will be more stricter on rules including Mag Limits, Squad Based Movements, and Objectives. If they cant follow these, then they are not welcomed to attend any further events hosted by the Field or Team whom is hosting said event. Ohio has a similar system which is great for newer, MilSim inspired players, who arent quite old enough to attend events like Irene, Northern Wind, Blind Fury, Safari Strike (Now Discontinued). MilSim [18 and Up] Allows the serious players to have a good time with their buddies and to have a great time. Objectives, Mag Restrictions, Player Cap, Squad Based Movements, etc, HIGHLY enforced. Keeps the kids away and allows the Adults to get loose. Minors can be allowed by the Event Hoster under the conditions that they can be vouched by 2 REPUTABLE and KNOWN Mature players, such as Knief, Munin, Canto, Big C, Crazy, Tex etc. This is where the Scenareo games come into play and then it settles any bitching that may come into play with players who say "Well you let him in and he is 16, but why cant I?" and then you have a valid response to him be it "Well its my event I can invite anyone whom I feel is mature enough and you dont have enough people to vouch for you" And if you really want to be harsh, make is so that the 2 people vouching said player are also put on the spot. IE If the kid fucks up and has complaints against him or her, then THEY (Vouchers) also get expelled from the game. That way you dont have people who are vouching people they dont actually know. These are the only ways that I see that could effectivley work out. It allows everyone a chance to play, and gives the serious players who enjoy Milsim a chance to play without the kids or with a very small amount of them. And now that everyone can play, you dont have the mass amount of complaints, and those who arent mature enough to handle the fact that they are not old enough to attend MilSim events, in my mind, dont need to attend. And they dont need to have a pissy attatude because rules are rules and if your not mature enough to follow them, then you are not mature enough to play. Simple as that.
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Post by Myers on Jul 8, 2008 14:24:21 GMT -5
The GK MilSim orientation was definitely the best 5 hours of learning of my life. To all younger players wishing to try out MilSim, I HIGHLY recommend going to this. It will really show you whether or not you like MilSim. Not only will it also teach you, but if you behave and prove that your willing to learn/act mature, you may earn yourself a vouch or a future reference.
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Post by Munin on Jul 8, 2008 14:41:14 GMT -5
And it definitely goes both ways. At the GK training event, Mike Myers had a solid head on his shoulders, asked good questions, and really soaked up the information we were presenting. He comported himself with maturity, and I'd vouch for him at any event requiring references for minors.
We'd like to do another training day, and hopefully some more of you will get the chance to learn more about MilSim, show your stuff, and demonstrate your maturity.
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