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Post by Tex on May 19, 2008 9:48:49 GMT -5
This is a joke, right?
All OPs used to be 18+. We younger kids had to simply wait until we were 18 in order to participate. You all are extremely lucky to have the opportunity to participate in all of the ones that you do and you take it for granted. That right there is a sign of immaturity.
I made my event, Black Eagle, 18+ and Milsim, and why? Because I don't want to be "playing war" as my girlfriend calls it, with people who are too young to be in war. No offense, I have some good friends who are under 18, who are quite mature and fun to be around, but they take away from the entire experience simply by being there and being young.
It's 1 or 2 games a year. There are like 10 planned for the summer alone. You still get your "experience" that you are complaining about and you will likely attend more OPs than those who show up to an 18+ game. I know I personally don't attend too many events due to the lack of enjoyment I have at most. The only times I really attend is when I know my good buddies from all over the state are going to be there so I can enjoy myself with them.
I've got a few PM's asking for age exceptions, and they were well written and thought out posts, no whining or being upset about the rules. They understood why I have them in place and respected that, they even said that if I chose to not allow them to come they wouldn't be mad at me and completely understand my decision. You all need to be like that. That is maturity.
In closing, just drop this. You're only making things worse for yourself by proving the immaturity of most of the under 18 crowd.
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Post by DevilDog on May 19, 2008 10:33:54 GMT -5
Rabbit hits it on the head, actually. If a player sees that they can't go to an op that's going to be great because they're under 18, they're going to work that much harder to be responsible, hard working, cool, honorable, mature, whatever, so that they can get invited to the next. And that's a win-win. End of discussion. This just shows that nobody can voice an opinion that contradicts the majority. Thor, this has nothing to do with what happened in the past between Tali and myself. So please keep your comments about that to yourself or address me personally. This forum has always been against the younger playes. Sadly, they make up the biggest portion of our player base. Having a few Op's a year that are 18+ is fine... But most of them are that way. I've always been a proponent of change... Whether we like it or not, change has to happen. I'll keep my opinions to myself since I should be seen and not heard.
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Post by Tex on May 19, 2008 10:42:13 GMT -5
Having a few Op's a year that are 18+ is fine... But most of them are that way. I've always been a proponent of change... Whether we like it or not, change has to happen. I'll keep my opinions to myself since I should be seen and not heard. Don't know who you are, or your issues with others on the forums. But apparently you are quite misinformed. The first 18+ event in at least 2 years is going to be in August (the end of the summer). 99% of ops are 14+. That's just one 18+ event for the entirety of the year. So I'm not sure what "change" you are seeking, as there are plenty of opportunities for the younger crowd to play. Much much much more than there were 5 years ago when I began. They/you are extremely lucky for the amount of Rec Games and Events going on this year, don't take it for granted.
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Post by DevilDog on May 19, 2008 10:51:33 GMT -5
I don't take it for granted.... And I never will. I'm glad that there have been 14+ events.
That being said, thanks to all those who have shared their opinions and thoughts!
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Exodus
New Member
Surprisingly nimble
Posts: 499
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Post by Exodus on May 19, 2008 14:31:30 GMT -5
I don't care about the 18+ events. It's just when the game that I wanted when I joined airsoft instead of paintball is not there. This isn't about 18+ ops and rec games, it's about 18+ only MILSIM. Sure, the 18 and under can play the paintsoft rounds, but when it comes to MILSIM, that is made 18+ only. If I wanted to fire off as many rounds as possible, I would be playing paintball. I came to airsoft to have a military simulation experience, which seems that everyone is against. Way to go bar kids from what real airsoft is like people. Way to go.
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Post by Tex on May 19, 2008 15:53:38 GMT -5
Lancer, now you're aggravating me. Your attitude is exactly why me, as an Event Host, do not want to allow people under the age of 18 to attend. Personally, I was quite mature for my age at 16, but I was by no means a mature person. The same goes for you, and the rest of the younger airsoft players.
Regardless of maturity levels, if I want to simulate a military experience, it would not include 15 year old as they are not in the Armed Forces. It is not Mil Sim to have children running around with adults, unless they are insurgents, but let's face it, we're mainly looking to simulate the United States Armed Forces, and not the Insurgents.
I'm sorry but you will have to wait like other have, and others will. I personally will not be lowering my age limits, and I really doubt that anyone else who is going to put in 3 months of planning for 1 day of simulation is going to take the risk of allowing younger players; whom are more likely to not stick with a Mil Sim style and cause poorer game play for the older members.
I was your age, and I was not allowed to play in ANY events outside of local rec games. As were all the older members here. I really don't believe any of us have any sympathy for you for this reason.
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Post by Psychosis on May 19, 2008 16:02:25 GMT -5
The day kids stop camping behind cover while trying to spray down the other team with hicaps is the day they're allowed into milsim games.
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Post by cqbr on May 19, 2008 16:17:29 GMT -5
The day kids stop camping behind cover while trying to spray down the other team with hicaps is the day they're allowed into milsim games. I have nothing else to say..psychosis. That pretty much sums it up. ;D Tex, I definitely agree with you about how having smaller players at your event (14,15,etc.) wouldn't be realistic to the MILSIM aspect of the game. All it would take it 4 or 5 younger players to get bored or sidetracked with the supplied objectives and take it upon themselves to break off from the rest of their team and do their own thing for the rest of the game thus disrupting the flow and "realness" of the whole situation. I played at the MILSIM game down in Florida that Relish talked about a few pages back, and that game was a ton of fun. The trigger time was almost non-existent, (he said he only fired 400rnds) but it was a ton of fun because the MILSIM factor was present which set it apart from normal Rec games. I may have misinterpreted some people's views, but I don't see any problem in having a few events each season or each year that are 18+ only. It's only 3 or 4 games and the rest of them are open to whomever chooses to attend. It's not like the 18+ games are these super-secret games being played for tournament competition and the winners are getting to keep everyone else's guns...I have nothing else to say. On a seperate note. My family owns 2,000 acres up north near Petoskey that I have been dying to have a milsim game at. We have 3 or 4 huge cleared fields and a few miles of trails already cut through the woods. If anyone would like to host a game there I would be glad to get the ball rolling. ;D
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Post by Knief on May 19, 2008 16:40:29 GMT -5
cqbr,
If you really have the go-ahead on 2,000 acres, I'm sure we could come up with a small group of dedicated players who would want to host an event there. That's the kind of game you plan for a year in advance. PM me with more details if you're serious and we can get the ball rolling for an event next summer (maybe late this season, but more than likely, next summer).
My thoughts on this particuarl subject are just an echo of Big Tex's, so I'm not going to bother.
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Post by Munin on May 19, 2008 16:41:58 GMT -5
DevilDog - No one's slamming you for expressing their opinion. Please return the favor. For what it's worth, I think you're absolutely right. Back when Geist Kompanie first thought about hosting events, one of the ones we wanted to do was geared towards introducing new players to safety and MilSim. Viking laid down the groundwork for it, if that tells you how long ago it was. Now that we're starting to emerge from our hibernation, that event is being seriously discussed again, and I think it could be a timely addition to the Michigan Airsoft scene. Lancer - I hate to quote myself, but here it is, from page 3 of this very thread: Take a step back and chill. You're not helping your argument at all by continuing to whine like a petulant child. The age limit and organizer chooses to enforce and the reasons they choose to enforce it are their decisions alone. You can either suck it up and prepare yourself for being old enough to participate, or you can make a reputation for yourself as someone who probably doesn't merit the exception given in those events that might consider taking under-18 players as special cases.
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Post by Relarz on May 19, 2008 16:45:01 GMT -5
Yeah, JD. If you get the ball rolling on that stuff, I'd make the drive and help set up the night before or something if I'm in-state when it happens. BIG field + hardcore milsim = lots of fun for me.
I would chime in with an idea, but it wouldn't be anything that hasn't been said already.
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Post by DevilDog on May 19, 2008 17:40:27 GMT -5
Munin, My apologies... I am truly sorry for interrupting the flow of this thread. Sorry to get off topic! I'll extend the courtesy, if it is extended to me...... My bad!
What really bothers me is the arrogance of those who are against change. People tend to forget where they came from. A lot of the people that are against change are the ones who were only 18 a few years ago. In order for any change to be effective, it needs to be aimed at the youth. To make are sport more acceptable to the masses, we need to educate (or train) the next generation of players. The current generation of players are already set in their ways and are more resistant to the change.
I'm not against the 18+ games. I agree, some of that needs to happen. I'm against the discrimination that this sport produces in elder members. I was 32 when I started playing this sport. I've always wanted to include as many players as I could, regardless of age. It's almost impossible in Northern Michigan to host an OP and not include them. I've played with some very mature and some very immature kids. The difference was in the way they were mentored to. Just because my body won't take me playing forever doesn't mean I don't want to help instruct and educate the next generation.
I know this topic has been beat to death over the last 6 years that I have been a member on MiA. There shouldn't be such a resistance to the proposed ideas. If you are totally against them, that's fine. You don't have to change your stance on the subject. All I'm asking is for everyone to keep an open mind about the ideas.
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Exodus
New Member
Surprisingly nimble
Posts: 499
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Post by Exodus on May 19, 2008 19:49:39 GMT -5
I do not see one point where I am whining like a petulant child. I am merely stating a case where I feel there should be change. I'll tell you now: It is damn tough to go to an event that is 300 miles away from me, and if I go, it better be what I want airsoft to be: MILSIM. Now, I guess you can call it whining if you must. What is this attitude you speak of? All I am doing is speaking out for a thing I believe in. And, if my memory serves me correctly, this is allowed. And in one place, I did say I feel I am mature enough to play airsoft. That does NOT mean that others do. Please clarify this quote. The day airsoft is MILSIM is the day that airsofters call in airstikes, mortar bombardment, and cruise missiles. This will be as close to MILSIM as we can get. If you want a realistic experience, dude, I don't know what to say. Join the military? No, these are not meant to be sarcastic in any way.
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Post by Relarz on May 19, 2008 22:15:17 GMT -5
Lancer, your statement:
and:
really shoot your argument in the foot. Don't rant and rave that you want milsim and then say it can't happen. If you truly think its impossible, then I don't know what to say other than maybe you need another hobby. Don't drag the rest of the community down with negative comments like that. Milsim is achievable, it requires discipline. And sorry to say to the younger guys, a true modern military environment doesn't include teens under 18, unless per say they were ragtag rebels in the street or something.
We can have our cake and eat it too, when it comes to milsim. It'll just take work on the community's part.
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Post by Ghast on May 20, 2008 0:21:04 GMT -5
The day airsoft is MILSIM is the day that airsofters call in airstikes, mortar bombardment, and cruise missiles. This will be as close to MILSIM as we can get. If you want a realistic experience, dude, I don't know what to say. Join the military? No, these are not meant to be sarcastic in any way. How about those of us that can't, huh. I'd join the military in a fucking heartbeat if I didn't wear hearing-aids. This is as close as I'm getting, short of MILES. I don't get fired up a lot, if ever, but tread lightly. Edit: PS. I'm not looking for pity, or your apologies, I'm just pointing out your blatant insensitivity.
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